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After Facebook fails

blogs.law.harvard.edu

121–130 of 214 posts

Re: After Facebook fails

#121
post #23

Every time I read about how online targeted ads have poor returns for advertisers, I think to myself: "These advertisers know that the ads have low ROI because things are measureable online. How (in)effective would traditional advertisements prove to be, if they were as measurable as their online counterparts? How (in)effective would traditional advertisements prove to be, if they didn't interject themselves into the…

But advertisers aren't stupid. There must be a rational reason why they keep paying higher prices for traditional ads.

Yeah, humans never erect institutions that allow them to behave in irrational ways en masse.

Re: After Facebook fails

#122
post #44

Here's my take on Facebook (disclaimer: I work for Google, these opinions are purely my own and not representative of the company, yadda yadda yadda). Display advertising works best when you have sufficient, quality inventory (publishers whose sites serve ads) such that you attract advertisers in sufficient quantity and quality. Targeting in display ads works because from the publishers, the intermediary has informat…

The botttom line with Facebook is that it went public far too early. It doesn't have its footing on solid ground as far as revenue growth, stability, and profitability are concerned. Its advertising model, dependent as it is on these much-maligned targeted display ads, is promising -- but has a lot of kinks to be worked out. The more I look at the Facebook IPO, the more I don't see the conventional narrative, i.e., that the company itself is a flop, or that its ad model is inherently flawed. Rather, I see a company that was forced to IPO before its time, by taking on too many private investors and too much private funding. Furthermore, I see a bunch of the people behind that private funding basically giving Facebook as shiny of a paintjob as possible in order to make its public debut. But the paint was applied hastily, and it's all flaky and spotty at the big show.

To me, this cautionary tale is every bit as much about VC funding bubbles as it is about advertising bubbles. Sure, Facebook could never have been bootstrapped to its current scale. But it could have stopped taking on such massive amounts of funding, and, instead, opted for more organic growth until it found time to perfect its ad products and business model.

When we talk about the Dotcom Bubble of the mid 90s, we talk about a frenzied funding (and IPOing) of companies with little more than userbases and unproven (or occasionally nonsensical) business models. Facebook is not that, exactly. It's more userbase than business, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Unfortunately, it was funded (excessively) in Dotcom Bubble fashion, and forced to IPO in Dotcom Bubble mode: grow insanely fast, worry about profitability later.

That it happened to benefit, temporarily, from a misguided advertising bubble is material, but also somewhat incidental.

Re: After Facebook fails

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, everytime I ask my friends at Facebook about this they make a weird face and say "no comment."

It is clearly their plan to do this, and in line with their stated intent to form the "identity layer" for the web. It's unlikely to work though, because the web has a great tendency to upset the plans of those who want to basically control the whole thing. It's sure that some kind of identity layer will come into use, but an open system (maybe a descendant of OpenID, maybe not) will always have the advantage of allo…

You know, another really obvious reason why it might not be a good idea:

Facebook ads are really cheap and have awful CTRs. Advertisers are used to paying very little for them.

Web ads though cost much more and are expected to perform a lot better.

What if FB launched an Adsense competitor, but no one cared because it performed so much worse?

Re: After Facebook fails

#124
Whilst I agree with pretty much everything he says about Facebook and targeted ads, I'm surprised that the article makes no reference to Amazon - which is the one place that, at least for me, targeted advertising works brilliantly.

There's a few reasons why it works for me

- I'm going there to buy or at least thinkg about buying something, and when it comes to things like books, I like to browse for something interesting so being prompted to look at books that I might be interested in seems entirely appropriate

- they are entirely open about why a particular product has been recommended to you, and you are able to pretty easily fine-tune those recommendations.

- when I buy something from them, or even browse on their site, I'm not particularly shocked when they remember that next time I visit. They don't seem to be secretly collecting stuff behind the scenes, sniffing around what I did on a random 3rd party site etc.

Facebook, and Google mostly (although they are at least slightly better off on the first point than FB) fail on all three of these. They are giving me messages about things that I'm not currently planning on doing, based partly on some secret info they've gathered from god knows where.

Re: After Facebook fails

#125
post #82
post #44

Here's my take on Facebook (disclaimer: I work for Google, these opinions are purely my own and not representative of the company, yadda yadda yadda). Display advertising works best when you have sufficient, quality inventory (publishers whose sites serve ads) such that you attract advertisers in sufficient quantity and quality. Targeting in display ads works because from the publishers, the intermediary has informat…

1. Your social games argument is really weak. People may play some social games with random people, but they mostly like, comment, have common friends, appear in photos together, go to weddings with real friends. 2. Your second argument is contradictory to your observation that Like buttons across the web are mainly cookie carriers. And as far as lying is concerned, people don't just lie virtually with Like buttons a…

He wasn't actually predicting failure for Facebook. The last thing he wrote was "It's still valuable but it will take some time to figure out exactly how much it's worth". Don't be so quick to lash out at people because they're not sitting in front of you or because you didn't read the comment.

Re: After Facebook fails

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether or not you "Like" things is irrelevant. The main purpose of that "Like" button is (IMHO) as a tracking cookie. Exactly. Ditto google's 'free' analytics, every adsense impression and the +1 button. Nice to see someone working at google establish this in such a straightforward way, such candor is pretty rare. Most of the time all you get is some marketing bull about how you're being enabled to share your favo…

AdBlockPlus and Ghostery are always the two plugins I install first on my Firefox. http://adblockplus.org/en/ http://www.ghostery.com/

I like RequestPolicy because it blacklists all external domains by default and it's easy to whitelist them as needed.

https://www.requestpolicy.com/

Re: After Facebook fails

#127
post #125
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Your social games argument is really weak. People may play some social games with random people, but they mostly like, comment, have common friends, appear in photos together, go to weddings with real friends. 2. Your second argument is contradictory to your observation that Like buttons across the web are mainly cookie carriers. And as far as lying is concerned, people don't just lie virtually with Like buttons a…

He wasn't actually predicting failure for Facebook. The last thing he wrote was "It's still valuable but it will take some time to figure out exactly how much it's worth". Don't be so quick to lash out at people because they're not sitting in front of you or because you didn't read the comment.

My last sentence was more in response to the OP, than cletus.

Re: After Facebook fails

#128
post #16

I have no idea if Facebook is valued correctly or not, however I think this misses a vital point. Facebook is not nearly the same as other web ventures. It's ability to target ads seems secondary to this: From http://www.kenburbary.com/2011/03/facebook-demographics-revi... , slightly out of date, but still useful: - Average user visits the site 40 times per month - Average user spends an 23 minutes (23:20 to be preci…

Facebook didn't start yesterday. It's years and years old, with massive amounts of engineering resources and resources of every other kind poured into it. The fact that they have the numbers you say they have, which they do, and that after all these man-millenia of work, are essentially doing just better than break-even, is an enormous flashing red sign to me. Revenue in this sort of area typically has a low-hanging fruit pattern, where getting the next bit out of the same customer gets progressively harder, not easier. If Facebook is going to be this raging success in the future, it should already be doing radically better than it is in terms of monetizing that attention, because it gets harder from here on out, not easier. (Or they need to get into a space where revenues work the other way around, like consulting (i.e., once you got the customer to pay you once it's easier to do it again) but what would that be?)

I see Facebook at this point as a nice business, nice revenue, certainly not a guaranteed failure, but to get to the point where it justifies 100 P/E today is a Hail Mary pass. I think that not only is there not any evidence that is possible, there is significant evidence against it. If there's this brilliant pivot lying in their future where suddenly they're making twenty times the money, how come they haven't managed to come up with it in the aforementioned man-millenia already? It's not like they're sitting on some brilliant idea but refused to deploy it until after they go public for some weird reason.

Re: After Facebook fails

#129

Every time I read about how online targeted ads have poor returns for advertisers, I think to myself: "These advertisers know that the ads have low ROI because things are measureable online. How (in)effective would traditional advertisements prove to be, if they were as measurable as their online counterparts? How (in)effective would traditional advertisements prove to be, if they didn't interject themselves into the…

The impact of any kind of advertising is usually easy to measure. Just because online advertising provides more things to measure doesn't mean they're worth measuring. In the end, the only thing that matters is how it affects the bottom line. If you truly have your finger on the pulse of your business, trends are easy to identify.

Re: After Facebook fails

#130
>> Robert Scoble likes Orchard Supply Hardware

That is not an ad for a hardware store, its an ad for Scoble. Just "like" as much stuff as you can, and people will constantly see your name and are reminded of you for free.

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