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FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

nytimes.com

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Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#391

Post by mgiampapa »

nashashmi wrote: post #381
mgiampapa wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because California saved it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Internet_Consumer_P... If any of the companies that wanted to exploit the lack of FCC enforced net neutrality did business with California they would have had a big problem.

the neutrality rule would be applying to ISPs. Those would be local to California. Outside of California, we would see the effects of no net neutrality

I believe a side effect of the way the legislation was written included that if they weren't neutral, then they couldn't do business with the State of California either or anything the state runs, like pension plans.

How much can you make doing business with or in CA vs. grifting the rest of the nation and bad press? It's very risky move. CA won and Verizon et all blinked.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#392

Post by sabarn01 »

karaterobot wrote: post #29

I'm fully in support of net neutrality, but I'm somewhat surprised they're restoring it, as I have not really heard a peep about it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then (my experience did not upgrade or downgrade). People stopped talking about it, there weren't major protests, news about it even largely disappeared from the front page of HN (!).…

This should be a reminder that almost all dire consequences from any government action are overblown. I also think the net neutrality was an important thing 15 years ago for how the internet worked then it has little practical value now.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#393

Post by sabarn01 »

backtoyoujim wrote: post #143
redserk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that these agencies and their powers did not spring up out of thin air. Various elected Congress sessions wrote the laws that created and empowered these agencies to create rules. This is a reasonable implementation of a "democratic republic" as Congress still has oversight.

Agencies are not beholden to Congress; they are beholden to the executive branch that creates them. That is why Nixon created the EPA so that there would not be a Department of the Environment that was out of the hands of executive power.

Congress has the legislative power all agencies derive their power from some act of congress.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#394

Post by acdha »

massysett wrote: post #261
vkou wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Throughout that time it has appropriated billions of dollars to keep the government running. In no other country is it considered an accomplishment for a government to debate a budget, agree on it, pass it, spend it, and then three quarters of the way through the year refuse to pay for the spending it agreed on, manufacturing a crisis that sometimes gets resolved at the eleventh hour, and sometimes results in a mul…

> three quarters of the way through the year refuse to pay for the spending it agreed on, At no time did this happen.

That’s what the debt ceiling arguments are about: members of Congress don’t want to take the heat for actually canceling something so they don’t remove it from the budget but then refuse to pay without some kind of token win for their campaign ads. The real debt problem is that you either need to restore taxes to pre-Bush levels or cut popular programs, but there’s no way to do either of those without being willing to negotiate and that’s currently politically untenable for one of the major parties.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#395

Post by dragonwriter »

nashashmi wrote: post #381
mgiampapa wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because California saved it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Internet_Consumer_P... If any of the companies that wanted to exploit the lack of FCC enforced net neutrality did business with California they would have had a big problem.

the neutrality rule would be applying to ISPs. Those would be local to California. Outside of California, we would see the effects of no net neutrality

There were lawsuits over the repeal under Trump raising uncertainty. That lawsuit wasn't resolved until 2019.

California adopted it's net neutrality law in 2018. 12 other states adopted net neutrality laws or executive actions, and over 100 local governments also did so, some before and some after the lawsuit over the federal repeal was resolved. Democrats in Congress in 2019 moved to legislatively reverse the repeal, and that passed through one house. Biden was elected in 2020, and either a legislative or executive reinstatement of net neutrality was expected.

All of this made meant that big ISPs would have to have patchwork rules in different jurisdictions if they wanted to skirt net neutrality and face a significant risk of having to unwind them. So, generally, no one did much that would go against net neutrality.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#396

Post by komali2 »

LastTrain wrote: post #382
dantheman wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not needed, the fcc doesnt have the authority, keeping the government away from internet is a good thing

In some libertarian dream the FCC lacks authority...

The American libertarian dream confuses me because unlike libertarians abroad (where it's a synonym with "anarchist") they stop with political authority, and seem to have no issue with corporate authority. The ISP business in the USA is very clearly an oligopoly with the top players colluding. Not sure how a rugged individual is supposed to fight back against that.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#397

Post by komali2 »

bko wrote: post #236
karaterobot wrote: post #29

I'm fully in support of net neutrality, but I'm somewhat surprised they're restoring it, as I have not really heard a peep about it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then (my experience did not upgrade or downgrade). People stopped talking about it, there weren't major protests, news about it even largely disappeared from the front page of HN (!).…

The proponents of net neutrality thought without it ISPs would just arbitrarily block data and require bribes from data providers to even serve up their data. In reality, no net neutrality would mean things like Netflix not counting as data on your mobile plan through some kind of sponsorship, or free basic internet like Wikipedia and news at a lower cost. I don't support legislation that bans something undertaken vo…

I'd genuinely like to understand why you think corporations, whose success is measured by profit and basically nothing else, are more likely to do things that are good for people than governments, whose success is measured at least a little bit by the wellbeing of their constituents.

I really want to better understand the thinking of people who hold opinions like yours.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#398

Post by pseudalopex »

_heimdall wrote: post #380

Interesting to see this come through effectively at the same time as the law granting powers that allows the government to ban TikTok and others in the future. I can't help but assume there's a connection there. I also don't know why the new law allowing a ban on foreign influenced social media would be necessary if the FCC decides again that it can regulate ISPs as utilities. Weren't the powers there already strong…

Your assumption is wrong. The net neutrality fight is older than TikTok. The process for this vote started in September. It would have started in 2021 if Biden's FCC nominee was approved. The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act does not involve the FCC. Regulating ISPs as utilities does not empower the FCC to force ISPs to block services. Never mind regulate app stores and hosting services.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#399

Post by MisterBastahrd »

xienze wrote: post #290
tivert wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By design, Congress is unable to do anything. It's either one party (always the same party) being completely obstructionist, even other presidential appointments, or if a rotating villain who defects and stops any meaningful legislation. Don't pretend like the Democrats wouldn't be just as obstructionist if it suited their political objectives. What we actually have is lack of consensus, and excessively polarized f…

> Don't pretend like the Democrats wouldn't be just as obstructionist if it suited their political objectives. And this is exactly what they did when Trump was in office! Their motto was “#resist” for crying out loud. Sheesh, right now TikTok is on the verge of being banned, something that they were completely against when Trump wanted to do it. Bad idea when Trump wants it, good idea when Biden does. Just be honest…

Please enumerate the Supreme Court justices that Democrats refused to seat during Trump's term.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#400

Post by miohtama »

callalex wrote: post #129
karaterobot wrote: post #29

I'm fully in support of net neutrality, but I'm somewhat surprised they're restoring it, as I have not really heard a peep about it since it was repealed in the first place. From my perspective, nothing about the internet changed since then (my experience did not upgrade or downgrade). People stopped talking about it, there weren't major protests, news about it even largely disappeared from the front page of HN (!).…

What changed for me is that my home internet provider (Comcast) implemented an overly-burdensome impossible data cap that I can only get rid of if I agree to use their router with deep packet inspection, ad injection, and more.

How does it work, because there is no way to inject anything to HTTPS connections?
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