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FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

nytimes.com

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Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#91

Post by pavlov »

jrockway wrote: post #75
bearjaws wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd flip it and say its what happens when Congress has been dysfunctional for over a decade. It's not even possible to get a house bill with net neutrality passed without it included 99 other things that will inevitably get the bill punted on forever. Congress could have drafted this anytime if they had seen fit, but they are "too busy" fighting ideology wars.

To be fair Congress does some work. They have avoided 2 government shutdowns. They funded the war efforts in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. They passed the infrastructure bill. The reality is, they just don't care about net neutrality. I'm still mad that they haven't passed the bill that gets rid of DST (or rather, gets rid of standard time). Everyone wants it in both parties. Just get it done. Even more annoying is th…

“Congress avoided two government shutdowns” is like saying “I avoided pooping in my pants twice today.” It’s factually true and objectively a positive thing, but there’s nothing really commendable about it.

The debt ceiling is Congress’s own creation, and Congress itself approves the budgets that cause the increase in debt. There isn’t another parliament on the planet that behaves so absurdly, fighting shadow puppets set up by itself.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#92

Post by exabrial »

I mean great. I don't really want the things it's trying to ban, so good?

But this is sorta like plastic straw bans: 0.0000000001% actual impact, all while making HUGE headlines, while doing absolutely zero to solve root systemic issues: Entrenched Local Monopolies by telco providers.

So yeah, good, glad my Nebula won't be slower than my YouTubes, while all along I just wanted to ditch the assholes in the first place and use a different ISP.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#93

Post by jszymborski »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #89
jrockway wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair Congress does some work. They have avoided 2 government shutdowns. They funded the war efforts in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. They passed the infrastructure bill. The reality is, they just don't care about net neutrality. I'm still mad that they haven't passed the bill that gets rid of DST (or rather, gets rid of standard time). Everyone wants it in both parties. Just get it done. Even more annoying is th…

> They have avoided 2 government shutdowns. My what a low bar

"They didn't trip on their own feet"

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#94

Post by redserk »

wtallis wrote: post #61
redserk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, the US is not a pure democracy. We elect representatives on our behalf to handle voting on matters. So dismissing something as "anti-democratic" is not applicable here. Our elected officials set up a system where a series of agencies under the Executive Branch may create rules, but the elected officials have oversight authority. If you disagree, you may petition your state government for a constitutional amend…

> So dismissing something as "anti-democratic" is not applicable here. [...] > If you disagree, you may petition your state government for a constitutional amendment I think you're misinterpreting what's being said here in order to over-react. I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that executive orders and delegating powers to appointed regulators should be expunged from our system of government. But they sho…

> I think you're misinterpreting what's being said here in order to over-react.

If you can point out how I'm misinterpreting, I'm open to discuss. From what it appears though, we have a disagreement on what we wish to delegate to different branches of government.

> But they should be acknowledged as a necessary evil, and their use minimized when possible

I disagree that executive agency rulemaking is a "necessary evil". Congress can simultaneously be derelict in their duties as a legislative body while having a executive regulatory apparatus that creates rules under their purview.

> Whereas you seem to be defending taking those practices to the extreme simply because of historical precedent.

If not for historical precedent and recognizing the practices we've been utilizing for 4-5 generations of people, what should we prioritize?

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#95

Post by dotnet00 »

wredue wrote: post #82
itishappy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps one commonality is that we all seem inclined to assume the other half makes political decisions out of spite.

I find the only commonality is that after the right wing does something, both sides say “this is going to hurt so many people”. It’s just that one side is laughing when they say it. I visit alt-right circles A LOT, and I have literally never once heard “the other side does these things out of spite”. The vast majority of the time, they don’t have anything to say on a topic beyond repeating some stupid meme. Additiona…

You obviously haven't been in any right-wing circles.

They're constantly saying that the other side "hates you and wants to destroy the country", exactly the same thing left-wing circles are constantly saying about them. If they're laughing when they're saying it, it's either because you're failing to read the room and arguing with someone who's just sharing an edgy meme rather than actually talking politics (I see this very often on the fediverse), or they're doing it in a cynical "haha, we're so screwed" manner.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#96

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

hobs wrote: post #41
cogman10 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... I wouldn't say so much. I'd expect that if Biden gets a second term, then after the election you can basically expect little to no action for the next 3 years. Business as usual... ish. Major changes will likely happen before the next election just to try and keep a democrat in office. The Trump second term will likely immediately start with rolling back things like Net Neutrality. Biden's admin likely wouldn't…

It's true that he cares about himself first, but he only stumps for republicans (as long as they support him) and he packed the federal and supreme court with republicans (and they've won important cases about redistricting rules and other things that keep republicans in power). So saying he doesn't care about keeping republicans in office makes no sense as he's probably cemented them in office in places they have no…

>and he packed the federal and supreme court

I can tell where the hypocrisy starts and the eye roll begins.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#97

Post by mypalmike »

itishappy wrote: post #55
wredue wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Perhaps one commonality is that we all seem inclined to assume the other half makes political decisions out of spite.

The data suggests that "both sides" isn't really the case here.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17457289.2019.15...

"these results suggest that Trump was able to leverage populist anger for political advantage in ways that other candidates were not and that such anti-elitism played an important and underappreciated role in explaining the outcome of the [2016] presidential election."

*Edit - added year in brackets for clarification.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#98

Post by Dig1t »

bgentry wrote: post #17
SeanAnderson wrote: post #13

I'm happy this reversal occurred, but I am exhausted by the continuous flip-flopping of legislation depending on which party is in charge. Feels like we're stagnating as a nation by going in a circle rather than finding commonality to go forward. Maybe it's always been this way though and I'm just getting old enough to be bothered by it?

It's partly what happens when such important rules are determined by who is appointed at an executive agency, rather than requiring an act of Congress. The former can be trivially gamed by the party in power after each election, whereas getting Congress to take action on something can be difficult and requires you to first get them motivated to do so at a given moment.

Exactly, we never voted any of the people making these decisions into office, they didn’t have to campaign or explain their policies to the public. Having a layer in between these regulators and the public (the politicians who appoint them) removes power from the common people.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#99

Post by theoperagoer »

Cody-99 wrote: post #52
theoperagoer wrote: post #38

ISPs should be allowed to throttle traffic for services. Otherwise, the result is going to be increased costs for all end-users.

No they shouldn't. I don't think that logic makes any sense at all. No one is paying increased costs because their neighbor is watching netflix, youtube, or browsing reddit. Users already pay for internet service they shouldn't have to pay again because the ISP wants to be greedy and double dip from fees to avoid throttling.

If netflix traffic is straining ISPs to the point of requiring hardware upgrades etc., I think it is fair for ISPs to ask them to pay some of that cost.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#100

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

jrockway wrote: post #75
bearjaws wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd flip it and say its what happens when Congress has been dysfunctional for over a decade. It's not even possible to get a house bill with net neutrality passed without it included 99 other things that will inevitably get the bill punted on forever. Congress could have drafted this anytime if they had seen fit, but they are "too busy" fighting ideology wars.

To be fair Congress does some work. They have avoided 2 government shutdowns. They funded the war efforts in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. They passed the infrastructure bill. The reality is, they just don't care about net neutrality. I'm still mad that they haven't passed the bill that gets rid of DST (or rather, gets rid of standard time). Everyone wants it in both parties. Just get it done. Even more annoying is th…

> They funded the war efforts in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan.

Aaaannnndd?... You're just going to leave out the banning of TikTok while claiming a victory for sending my money to other nations for wars I do not want to fund?

And another thing , government shutdowns are problems created ENTIRELY BY CONGRESS for never operating under a proper budget since 1997. All they're doing is fighting each other over a massive shell game of sending the right amounts of money to their donors' interests to guarantee reelection.

"Infrastructure projects" is just another term for crony capitalism. Just look at funding for telcos to build out infra, or EV charging stations, or solar panels, or anything else they fund as "infrastructure." It's always just a massive kickback scheme, and nothing gets built.

They're doing work alright, just not any that I want. Our system is nakedly and brazenly corrupt, and we don't seem to be able to do anything about it.

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