What can we do to actually contest it? I see this website lets you submit a “formal comment”. But is that enough? Who is in charge of the decision and who else can be pressured to stop it (certain legislators)?
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We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
51–60 of 395 posts
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I ask this 100% genuinely, since this isn't a subject I've ever given any mind to. Why should we oppose this? What are the potential negative outcomes if this goes through? Can you steelman the argument for why people support this, and explain why you find the arguments unconvincing?
It is great that you ask a question, because we live in a world with the freedom to opine on things. What could be considered a massive issue to me may not be a massive issue to another; and if we feel the world will be better by debating our positions, we have the right to do so. Today, anonymity and pseudonymity exist and allow people to speak freely without risk of backlash for having a different opinion as often…
This doesn't seem to affect users of internet services, though. It's just IaaS, so things like AWS. With that limited scope, what is the adverse affect of KYC laws on freedom of speech?
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#53Unconstitutional.
What provision of the constitution does it violate? Do you know of court precedents that support that claim? I'm not writing this to argue against your position, but to help people craft effective comments to submit in response to the proposed regulation. Federal agencies are not responsive to comments about people disliking a proposed rule, but are very responsive to concrete examples of why it might be legally prob…
The fourth amendment?
> “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#54Skimming through the article, it seems like the extent of this is to require IAAS (Infrastructure) providers to verify the identity of those who are using their services to train AI. It's an attempt to stymie sanctioned or malicious actors, from training AI and especially from hopping between services or using aliases to continue training on their model. It seems a bit benign and I don't understand the parallels othe…
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> propose regulations requiring U.S. Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS) providers of IaaS products to verify the identity of their foreign customers,
Sounds like solid policy to me.
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#55So this is just to make it easier to ban non-US citizens from using US IaaS (or track them).
Just don't use American IaaS in the first place. It's not like computers are available only in the US.
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's still just for IaaS companies, though, right? Not that that makes this all okay, but it is a much more limited proposal than "internet services" makes it sound.
Legally speaking, internet service providers are infrastructure providers.
Do you have a basis for this claim or are you just throwing it out there to see if it catches on? The document linked refers to IaaS, which as an acronym definitely does not include ISPs.
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#57Skimming through the article, it seems like the extent of this is to require IAAS (Infrastructure) providers to verify the identity of those who are using their services to train AI. It's an attempt to stymie sanctioned or malicious actors, from training AI and especially from hopping between services or using aliases to continue training on their model. It seems a bit benign and I don't understand the parallels othe…
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> You're calling a collection and storage of your personal information as "benign"?!
All major cloud services already collect this information. I filled in the bare minimum on AWS, and they've got my full name, address, phone number, email, and credit card details.
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that the biggest argument in favour is that it would remove anonymity on the internet, at least from governments, and that could enable law enforcement to more easily find people committing real crimes. CSAM, scams, etc. I think the biggest argument against it is that this removes anonymity on the internet, at least from governments, and that would remove people's ability to freely voice their opinions withou…
> …directs the Secretary of Commerce (Secretary) to propose regulations requiring U.S. Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS) providers of IaaS products to verify the identity of their foreign customers… (from TFA) This is about IaaS not “internet services”. It doesn’t remove anonymity from internet users, just foreign customers renting cloud servers and other infrastructure.
It seems the definition of IaaS Products could very well extend to ISPs: https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2024-01580/p-46
> This proposed definition adopts the E.O. 13984 definition for “Infrastructure as a Service product”, which is any product or service offered to a consumer, including complimentary or “trial” offerings, that provides processing, storage, networks, or other fundamental computing resources, and with which the consumer is able to deploy and run software that is not predefined, including operating systems and applications.
How would an ISP not be misconstrued as a "managed network"? Deploy/run software could just as easily be running some protocol over the network connection?
Sure, there are very few international ISPs which would be affected by this as physical infrastructure must be local to the user, but I wonder if this would be true always (e.g.: Starlink)
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> You're calling a collection and storage of your personal information as "benign"?! All major cloud services already collect this information. I filled in the bare minimum on AWS, and they've got my full name, address, phone number, email, and credit card details.
They collect biometric data (selfie) plus a copy of your drivers license? That's a big part of KYC/AML.
That's a huge difference from address, email, CC number.
Re: We have 4 days to contest KYC being required by internet services
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> propose regulations requiring U.S. Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS) providers of IaaS products to verify the identity of their foreign customers, Sounds like solid policy to me.
And how do you know that one customer is a foreign one and one is not?