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Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

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Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#381

Post by nemothekid »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #356
nemothekid wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners Why does everyone assume this is likely? The CCP has already said they would block a sale of TikTok. This happened a while ago - so the US saying TikTok must be sold is an effective ban. The misdirection of the wording of the ban is just dishonest.

> misdirection of the wording of the ban is just dishonest Ban usually means you can't use it anymore. Take, for example, Google in mainland China. Banned without unusual circumvention. If TikTok refuses to sell to a non-Chinese owner, on the other hand, they get removed from app stores. Their website still works without any circumvention. Not banned. Even in the worst case.

1. You are moving the goalposts. Now it's not "they will be forced to sell", but "the website will still be available".

2. I am looking forward to seeing the justifications that will be trotted around once the USG torpedoes net neutrality and bans the website

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#382

Post by autoexec »

hot_gril wrote: post #342
returningfory2 wrote: post #38

The work "ban" is in scare quotes for a reason. The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. If the law stands, the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners, rather than TikTok going away. It's surprising to me that this this pretty significant distinction has been glossed over both in media reporting and in general comments here on HN. To be clear, I'm not sup…

Also wonder whether the law names TikTok in particular or just some criteria that matches it. If it's the latter, are other companies also on the clock?

It's not just tiktok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Fore...

Does yandex have an app or use cloudflare?

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#383

Post by jorblumesea »

danieltanfh95 wrote: post #301
returningfory2 wrote: post #38

The work "ban" is in scare quotes for a reason. The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. If the law stands, the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners, rather than TikTok going away. It's surprising to me that this this pretty significant distinction has been glossed over both in media reporting and in general comments here on HN. To be clear, I'm not sup…

Just because it doesn’t say “ban” doesn’t mean its not one. It is well known that China lists algorithms and AI models trained on citizen data as a non-export so tiktok will never be able to sell to anyone other than a Chinese company unless they retrain the model etc. The CEO has mentioned that they will simply pull out of the US market.

Kind of reinforces the allegations of being CCP owned and compromised and not an independent entity. If you have poison pill provisions.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#384

Post by mjamesaustin »

themgt wrote: post #135
intellix wrote: post #64

if you've been to China, you'll know that they ban all western products: facebook, google, etc etc and replaced them with their own variants. If they want to run around free-range without any restriction with their own products then they should respond by loosening restrictions in their own country. This is an absolute no-brainer. If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Am I missing something?

The story back in the ancient history of ~1989->2021 was our free open liberal system was so obviously superior that we were just going to wait around for China to realize their dumb mistake and join us at the end of history. Their great firewall would cripple their economy until then. The new story is we're copying China's tactics because China did it first and it works great. I mean, sure, go with that. But it does…

Reciprocation is actually the policy more likely to get China to open up. As long as they can impose rules on US companies with impunity, while we stand back and give them free reign in our market, they have a zero likelihood of compromising.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#385

Post by afavour »

nebula8804 wrote: post #363
afavour wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you’d be wasting a huge amount of money for no good reason. If TikTok gets banned Meta will probably vacuum up the audience with Instagram Reels. It would be posturing with no real purpose.

If Reels was any good wouldn't it have become a meaningful force in its own right by now? As it stands from my point of view it is mostly stolen recycled week old TikTok content. That TikTok "magic" is made on their platform because of what their algorithm rewards. Meta does not have that "magic".

My point is that if Reels doesn’t have to compete with TikTok any more (because it shuts down) then that would be a good thing for Meta.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#386

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #372

I hope this will show the severity of threats countries face from social media and that things are no longer business as usual. Every European country /and/or EU/ECC as a block, as well as every other nation or block, should follow this up as soon as permitted to have all social media apps operated by a foreign country be subject to the same legislation. TikTok will have to sel to the US, Netherlands, France, Germany…

> Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube, WhatsApp, will either have to stop operating outside of the Unites States or they will need to be sold to every country they wish to operate in

TikTok can sell to a French, Hungarian, Indian, Brazilian or even Iraqi person and be in compliance with this bill's terms. It doesn't require American ownership, it forbids control by a foreign adversary.

If the EU and U.S. passed legislation subjecting all tech companies to these rules, the only ones who would have to do anything are those owned and controlled by a foreign adversary state.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#387

Post by kylehotchkiss »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #182
dwnoble wrote: post #22

Fun fact: according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma... , tiktok.com has been blocked in mainland China since 2020.

Funny list. I'm curious why something like swiggy.com, a food ordering and delivery platform is there. Do they even operate in china?

probably a tit-for-tat against India banning a lot of Chinese services back in 2020

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#388

Post by nebula8804 »

jjordan wrote: post #97
ok123456 wrote: post #41

I won't stop using it.

You won't have to, but if an actual ban went through, and an iPhone is your only means of connection, you would be truly SOL, because Apple's captured ecosystem only allows users to run what Apple will permit. We need open ecosystems and access to full root-level control of our devices by default. Accept no substitutes.

Correct me if I am wrong but this only limits people who already haven't downloaded the app yet? People who already have the app wouldn't just have it forcibly uninstalled from their phone right? I have had apps that didn't make it to the 32 -> 64 bit transition stay on my phone when my apps get transferred from phone to phone.

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#389

Post by cwyers »

nemothekid wrote: post #314
returningfory2 wrote: post #38

The work "ban" is in scare quotes for a reason. The law doesn't ban TikTok. Rather, it bans TikTok from having Chinese owners. If the law stands, the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners, rather than TikTok going away. It's surprising to me that this this pretty significant distinction has been glossed over both in media reporting and in general comments here on HN. To be clear, I'm not sup…

> the end result will likely be that TikTok will be sold to US owners Why does everyone assume this is likely? The CCP has already said they would block a sale of TikTok. This happened a while ago - so the US saying TikTok must be sold is an effective ban. The misdirection of the wording of the ban is just dishonest.

Why are you framing this in such a way that treats one party as having agency and the other party as being immovable? The US is not banning TikTok, they are posing stipulations towards its use and you believe the CCP when they say they won't comply with those stipulations. But why is that a ban, versus "the CCP refuses to let TikTok comply with US law?"

Re: Biden signs TikTok bill into law, starting clock for ByteDance to divest

#390

Post by hot_gril »

autoexec wrote: post #382
hot_gril wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also wonder whether the law names TikTok in particular or just some criteria that matches it. If it's the latter, are other companies also on the clock?

It's not just tiktok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Fore... Does yandex have an app or use cloudflare?

Hmm, but it gives the US President the ability to decide who is targeted, so one way or another it seems like TikTok is treated specially.
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