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Other People’s Problems

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Re: Other People’s Problems

#71

Post by nuancebydefault »

JeremyJaydan wrote: post #34

I've also seen this phenomenon. I wonder if hopelessness and hopefulness is relevant since the focus seems to be the difficulty of coming up with solutions. I suppose this just shifts the question to.. are we typically more hopeful for others than of ourselves and if so why? Hopeful = helpful?

If we have a problem ourselves, we sometimes block out, often obvious, solutions! I read somewhere : what can help is, ask yourself, what advice would I give if that problem were a problem of a friend. And that works! Suddenly you have, at least, a less biased view on the problem, or even the solution!

Re: Other People’s Problems

#72

Post by lazide »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #67
lazide wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet.... You're not happy, because you're here complaining about it. So perhaps it isn't as superior as you want to believe? QED. (As someone who does the same sometimes, like apparently right now. Sorry.)

That has no bearing on this entire discussion. I am not happy I have to play by social norms. However, playing by those norms is the optimal solution in maintaining important relationships with people I care about.

Ah, but it is directly applicable no? Showing the issue, even.

Why do you care about relationships at all except for your short/long term emotional needs, safety, etc?

Because #2 then is not actually optimal or perfect then for that stated goal, correct? It isn’t playing to social norms.

#3 and #4 tend to produce better outcomes in that sense. And #4 also can provide useful contextual information on a person, which is necessary for having a real relationship with them.

So isn’t hating these kinds of interactions, actually hating the difficulty you have in meeting emotional/relationship needs naturally? Instead of having of do exhausting rational work all the time while emotionally disliking (or even hating) it for reasons that are nearly impossible to see?

And this discussion is me demonstrating that. Because now you hate me, eh? But not because I’m wrong. But because it’s a truth you don’t know how to change or make better, and for which knowing makes it more painful - as it strips away the comforting self image.

Interestingly, despite what folks say, this also appears to be why a lot of people get so angry when someone offers unsolicited advice.

Because it’s often a solution that could work, if it wasn’t for the problem they had that they can’t seem to fix - because it hurts too much even seeing it.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#73

Post by chasd00 »

nate wrote: post #33

Relatedly, there's interesting research on "self-distancing". Like https://selfcontrol.psych.lsa.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2... Talking to yourself by Name or in second person like you are talking to a friend seems to have a positive way of changing your perspective and allowing you to regulate your emotions and deal with something more rationally.

> Talking to yourself by Name or in second person

but that guy is crazy and never listens to anything i say! ;)

Re: Other People’s Problems

#74

Post by BeFlatXIII »

yetihehe wrote: post #50
fargle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's cute, and it is often true. but not "always". sometimes when a group gets "wrapped around the axle" and the proposed thing is spiraling out of control (usually due to hallucinated requirements or group anxiety feeding on itself), "Just " is EXACTLY what is needed, especially from a confident leader.

Yes, but is not . "Just implement it" may be said in spite of required complexity, "Implement just this one option out of many" is typically already defined and is a narrowing of scope.

I agree. Grammar matters. "Just do this one thing" is worthless blather while "do just this one thing, then consider next steps" is a necessary call to focus.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#75

Post by omoikane »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #39
kayodelycaon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also don't see what is insulting about making a sincere attempt to help, whether it ends up being helpful or not. It's the equivalent of people wanting to escort you across a road without getting run over. They don't think you're capable of understanding the risks of crossing a road. Or giving someone in a wheelchair tips on how to walk normally. Or your completely tech illiterate grandparent telling you how to w…

I don't consider any of your extreme examples as "a sincere attempt to help". Maybe I should rephrase it as "sincere, reasonable attempt to help". I guess there is also a distinction to be made between problems to be solved, and currently acceptable, non-problematic situations where you receive unsolicited advice on how to improve it.

Often, the problem is with the persons offering the solution not seeing things from the perspective of the people receiving them. The helper felt that they were sincere in their intent, but their intentions aren't always desirable. Related:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_with...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Verschlimmbesserung

Re: Other People’s Problems

#76

Post by chasd00 »

The devil is in the details and, at the end of the day, the person with the problem is the one who has to solve it. Even armed with great advice that's not an easy task or it wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#77

Post by macintux »

Related: volunteering is a good way to get out of your own head. Putting your concerns to the side and helping the community can do wonders for your mental health (not to mention gain new friends with similar interests).

Re: Other People’s Problems

#78

Post by skybrian »

atoav wrote: post #52
jmbwell wrote: post #28

It’s true that sometimes an outsider can offer a fresh perspective. From where you sit, there might be a solution you can’t see. The nearest exit might be in the row behind you. Maybe this applies more often when the one giving advice has more experience than the one receiving it, or when the person who is stuck has habituated a narrow perspective or some form of learned helplessness. But I recoil at something I thin…

As you say this can cut both ways. A good example would be the US where people constantly wonder whether $thing-that-29-out-of-30-developed-countries-do-since-decades could truly work. Yeah it works, we have seen it work, it is currently working. Now imagine you are a software developer entering the offices of a group of bueraucratic clercs that keep an intricate fax-and-scanner-based system of bullshit just barely a…

The argument from what other countries have done can often be used simplistically. Yes, it’s important to learn from other countries. However, when you look into it, it sometimes turns out that the other 29 countries have all done things in somewhat different ways, that their solutions are somewhat path-dependent and culture-specific, that they have problems too, and your country has some unique problems of its own that are hard to overcome.

Re: Other People’s Problems

#79

Post by pc86 »

WalterBright wrote: post #57
zackmorris wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya the blogger falls for a fallacy that I often see from people who consider themselves smart, especially in tech: that they are somehow more clever/insightful/effective than other people and know how everything should work. But as I've gotten older and more experienced, I've come to understand that everyone is uniquely talented and brilliant in some way. The vast majority of people are just vulnerable to becoming tr…

> due to corporate greed inflation The inflation is the inevitable result of flooding the economy with trillions of dollars in freshly printed money. It happens every time the printing press is run like that, in every country, throughout history. > we'll actually reclaim the economic liberty that we used to enjoy Having the government run the economy is not economic liberty.

Isn't it funny that everyone right of center thinks inflation is due to trillions of dollars added to the economy and everyone left of center thinks inflation is due to people in 3-piece suits and monocles wanting another boat?

Re: Other People’s Problems

#80

Post by methyl »

jmbwell wrote: post #28

It’s true that sometimes an outsider can offer a fresh perspective. From where you sit, there might be a solution you can’t see. The nearest exit might be in the row behind you. Maybe this applies more often when the one giving advice has more experience than the one receiving it, or when the person who is stuck has habituated a narrow perspective or some form of learned helplessness. But I recoil at something I thin…

This is why it’s critical to provide new angles to the problem itself, not just a bunch of solutions many of which has obviously been considered already.
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