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The man who killed Google Search?

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Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#591

Post by jaynate »

godelski wrote: post #490
banish-m4 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this insightful piece. The pathologies of big companies that fail to break themselves up into smaller non-siloed entities like Virgin Group does. Maintaining the successful growing startup ways and fighting against politics, bureaucracy, fiefdoms, and burgeoning codebases is difficult but is a better way than chasing short-term profits, massive codebases, institutional inertia, dealing with corpora…

What's odd to me is how everything is so metricized. Clearly over metricization is the downfall of any system that looks meritocratic. Due to the limitations of metrics and how they are often far easier to game than to reach through the intended means. An example of this I see is how new leaders come in and hit hard to cut costs. But the previous leader did this (and the one before them) so the system/group/company i…

Agree you have to mix qualitative with the quantitative, but the best metrics systems don't just measure one quantity metric. They should be paired with a quality metric.

Example: User Growth & Customer Engagement

Have to have user growth and retention. If you looked at just one or the other, you'd be missing half the equation.

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#592

Post by WWLink »

fragmede wrote: post #519
munificent wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope, rather - that technically minded people who are advocating for the use of ML understand the short comings and hallucinations. The people I see who are most excited about ML are business types who just see it as a black boxes that makes stock valuation go vroom. The people that deeply love building things, really enjoy the process of making itself, are profoundly sceptical. I look at generative AI as sort of…

We get it, you're skeptical of the current hype bubble. But that's one helluva no true Scotsman you've got going on there. Because a true builder, one that deeply loves building things wouldn't want to use text to create an image. Anyone who does is a business type or an executive producer. A true builder wouldn't think about what they want to do in such nasty thing as words. Creation comes from the soul, which we al…

Getting drunk off that AI kool-aid aren't ya

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#593

Post by WWLink »

xarope wrote: post #574
fragmede wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We get it, you're skeptical of the current hype bubble. But that's one helluva no true Scotsman you've got going on there. Because a true builder, one that deeply loves building things wouldn't want to use text to create an image. Anyone who does is a business type or an executive producer. A true builder wouldn't think about what they want to do in such nasty thing as words. Creation comes from the soul, which we al…

using English has been tried many times in the history computing; Cobol, SQL, just to name a very few. Still needed domain experts back then, and, IMHO, in years/decades to come

Or you can draw pretty pictures in LabVIEW lol

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#594

Post by fuzztester »

minetest2048 wrote: post #557
AlexCoventry wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YT Shorts itself is kind of a mystery to me. It's an objective degradation of the interface; why on earth would I want to use it? It doesn't even allow adjustment of the playback speed or scrubbing!

You can scrub on the mobile player, that's what makes it so much frustrating because you can't do that on desktop

What does scrubbing mean in this context? Blocking the Shorts?

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#595

Post by gr__or »

lupire wrote: post #545
sumanthvepa wrote: post #537

Full Disclosure: Prabhakar Raghavan was my skip-level manager at Yahoo! and I'd known of him well before that, from my days at IBM Research. The author says very few people knew who Raghavan was. Clearly he isn't a computer scientist. It is more an indication of the ignorance of the writer than anything else. Raghavan's contributions to Computer Science and, Search in particular, which were made long before he joined…

My favorite thing about McKinsey is that they are hated for 2 reasons: 1. Allegedly ruining companies with mismanagement. 2. Making companies people don't like too successful. That's more an indictment of the business skills of the critics than McKinsey.

The general critique is: McKinsey over-optimizes on short term profitability over meaningful, longer term, harder-to-measure values. Your framing drops the most important aspect of the critique to make it sound contradictory.

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#596

Post by WWLink »

Narishma wrote: post #546
998244353 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I do not remember a time when YouTube's suggestions or search results were good. Absurdities like that happened 10 and 15 years ago as well. These days my biggest gripe is that they put unrelated ragebait or clickbait videos in search results that I very clearly did not search for - often about American politics.

I do remember when Youtube would show more than 2 search results per page on my 23" display. Or when they would show more than 3 results before spamming irrelevant videos. Or when they didn't show 3 unskippable ads in a 5 minute video. Or when they had a dislike button so you would know to avoid wasting time on low quality videos.

> I do remember when Youtube would show more than 2 search results per page on my 23" display.

Wait what?! You "Consume Content" on a COMPUTER? What are you some kinda grandpa? Why aren't you consuming content from your phone like everyone else? Or casting it from your phone to your SMART TV! Great way to CONSUME CONTENT!

CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT CONSUME CONTENT

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#597

Post by barfbagginus »

romanhn wrote: post #495
phyzome wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Class traitor" isn't a juvenile insult. It has a fairly well-defined meaning and describes a set of problematic behaviors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_traitor Are you saying that it's an incorrect description, or are you just generally against accusing people of things?

It's a ridiculous term that promotes polarization and dumbs down the level of discourse. I have the same reaction to it as when I see "bootlicker" as applied to anyone who takes the company's side (or is in management in general). There's too much adversarial name-calling these days, and not enough seeking understanding.

It seems like you might be abstracting and dumbing down the meaning of the term.

There was a sense in which the author uses that term as an abstract and meaningless insult. But there's also the sense in which the author uses the term as a reference to the class struggle, and the fact that scientists are generally in a lower class than capitalists, and so should, in theory, owe their allegiance to worker class rather than the capital class.

All of this nuance is implied in that statement. If you see class traitor and don't immediately think about arguments about the class struggle between capitalists and workers, then you are in effect infantilizing the term.

You can claim that a large part of the audience will naturally react that way to this term. However it may be the case that the author does not care if people who do not believe in the class struggle would tend to infantilize that term. Speaking to the audience that knows about the class struggle theory is sufficient and valid.

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#598

Post by romanhn »

oldkinglog wrote: post #572
romanhn wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a ridiculous term that promotes polarization and dumbs down the level of discourse. I have the same reaction to it as when I see "bootlicker" as applied to anyone who takes the company's side (or is in management in general). There's too much adversarial name-calling these days, and not enough seeking understanding.

If you also take a wage, then you're also a class traitor by any reasonable definition, because denying the existence of class struggle only benefits capitalists - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_conflict

Thanks for helping me make my point. How's it up there in the socialist ivory tower? See, I grew up in Soviet Union and seen socialism's effects first-hand. It thoroughly disabused me of the notion of the holy class struggle and made me an unabashed capitalist (though I imagine our definitions of what this implies will differ).

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#599

Post by jaynate »

atif089 wrote: post #476
barfbagginus wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I formed a worker co-op - but it's just me! And I do CAD reverse engineering, nothing really life-giving. I would love to join a co-op producing real human survival values in an open source way. Where would you suggest that I look for leads on that kind of organization?

Let's start with replacing Google. Count me in. While DDG, Brave, Kagi etc are working generously to replace Google search. The other areas that I think get less attention and needs to be targeted to successfully dismantle them and their predatory practices are Google maps and Google docs. Maps are hard because it requires a lot of resources and money and whatever but replacing docs should be relatively easier.

Using OSS to commoditize complements plays a big role in breaking up big advantages.

There is big tech open source consortium working on maps now to commoditize it: https://siliconangle.com/2022/12/15/aws-microsoft-meta-tomto...

Not sure it'll work. I think half the advantage comes from the integration across all these tools (maps, search, etc). Have you ever tried to use duckduckgo? It surprised me what I take for granted in Google's user experience.

Re: The man who killed Google Search?

#600

Post by fuzztester »

etc-hosts wrote: post #515
fuzztester wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in hindu Hindi is the word for the language, bro.

I knew I could count on you.

You bet. Think nought of it. We gave the world zero, after all. Even computers owe us. ;)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/0

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