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North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

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Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#151

Post by LarsDu88 »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #76
LarsDu88 wrote: post #31

When I saw the title, I immediately thought of the show "Invincible" which had abysmal animation, and lo and behold, its right there are the top of the list.

Our of curiosity why did you think Invincible had abysmal animation? Which is ironic since in the last seasons they even broke the fourth wall and did a tongue in cheek poke at their audience who criticize their animation quality explaining how they're under crunch and what techniques they use to cut corners. Quite clever actually. Didn't think they were covering up their North Korean animators though lol.

Great writing. Great voice acting. Why the hell are all the non-pivotal scenes barely animated?

Like in one episode an alien spaceship blows up and a static gif of an alien goes spinning around.

Just compare that to the animation in Xmen '97 which has a similar episode count.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#152

Post by godelski »

yxwvut wrote: post #146
godelski wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're oversimplifying the issue, which does nothing to bring us closer to a solution. If you tell X to get something done and ALSO give X rules that they must follow and X gets the thing done but __breaks the rules__ then this is different. It is also different if you have reasonable suspicion to expect them to break the rules or are using subversive language to tell them to break the rules. These are different thin…

I'd go further to say that rules without any verification aren't really rules. You don't make a rule without the suspicion that it'd be more efficient to break them, and if you're not verifying their adherence to those rules, your rule is meaningless. This is the iterated game that morally bankrupt manufacturers (IE the vast majority) play to insulate themselves in these sort of scandals: - First, they get caught doi…

I'm more of the position of "trust but verify."

The verification process is exceptionally difficult. We're on HN and I think it should be rather common knowledge that attackers almost always beat defenders because the game is asymmetric. Attackers only need to find a single flaw while defenders need to find a large number of defenses. There is a huge difference in the resource expenditures between these two groups. This is related to the reasons why one single person can fuck shit up (e.g. a bad driver can impact tens of thousands of other drivers) but it is difficult for a single person to fix things. It is the nature of unstable equilibria.

A society, of any form, depends on trust. Like it or not, there are no trustless systems available to us. Certainly not at any meaningful scale.

This does not mean one should be negligent, but rather I'm saying that it isn't easy and the best intentioned can still be taken advantage of. We should recognize this and accommodate this fact when approaching solutions or we will end up with many undesired results.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#154

Post by BobaFloutist »

gruez wrote: post #113
yunohn wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does this too - they set wildly low payable rates and then get surprised when Foxconn grinds their workers to dust.

What makes you think that if apple paid "fair" prices, that it won't get siphoned off to pay management/shareholders?

We can't know that, but we can know that if they pay unfair prices the workers are definitely not getting paid or treated appropriately.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#155

Post by johnea »

loudmax wrote: post #82
johnea wrote: post #2

Isn't North Korea working on something like cartoon animation, a good thing?

These aren't North Korean entrepreneurs building businesses in a free market. Any enterprise in North Korea should be understood as slave labor to provide support for a criminal regime.

Isn't that the same thing as working for a publicly traded company?

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#156

Post by yunohn »

gruez wrote: post #113
yunohn wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does this too - they set wildly low payable rates and then get surprised when Foxconn grinds their workers to dust.

What makes you think that if apple paid "fair" prices, that it won't get siphoned off to pay management/shareholders?

Well, like I said, Apple is known for having hardline stances with their partners - it could easily be mandated that employee wages need to be 2X$ or whatever.

Though, Apple has the exact same issue you claim Foxconn might have - funneling value to shareholders over laborers.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#157

Post by jsiepkes »

johngladtj wrote: post #143
mhsred5 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point maybe stop outsourcing and just do the work. Boeing used to make airplanes. Now they outsource the work of "make the airplanes" and all it cost them was their reputation. Less outsourcing, more just doing the work please.

Ok, so you expect the airline to mine the ore to make the tools needed to mine the ore needed to make the aluminum used in the packaging of the snacks they give out on board? Think about exactly where this ends.

There is a difference between ordering specialist work (i.e. someone makes something to your exact specifications) and buying ore on a global market.

But sure, even in case of ore you have a responsibility to make sure it isn't being delved by slave labour.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#158

Post by pvg »

godelski wrote: post #144
pvg wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that big of a deal, the main problem with it is people assume this is actually a way to get moderator attention for something. It's great that you don't but plenty of users don't know that nor are they aware of the reliable method of emailing hn@ycombinator.com. The other, probably more important reason not to do it is that it gums up threads with pointless meta which runs against the site conventions. If a…

> The other, probably more important reason not to do it is that it gums up threads with pointless meta which runs against the site conventions. It seems like we are complaining about the same issue. Again, why does this conversation exist since it has clearly been established that I am aware and that anyone reading is aware. If you got a problem with how I use typographical indicators, sorry, I'm going to keep doing…

that anyone reading is aware

That's the thing, they aren't.

I've been given no indication that anyone thinks it actually pings @dang

You can find lots of comments by people who think that and replies by dang explaining it does nothing. The idea that we just have no clue what the effects of this are and why moderators think it is best avoided is just an odd one. The busybodies repeat this because the moderators do. Well, that and they're busybodies.

I did not start with @dang.

It doesn't matter, editing your comment to add meta is the thing that ends up derailing comments and threads. It's spamming your own comments, effectively - such comments are regularly moderated to the bottoms of threads.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#159

Post by constantcrying »

godelski wrote: post #148
constantcrying wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, having suppliers is completely inevitable for any company. "We only do X" is one of the best tools to manage complexity. I think what the other poster is referring to is specifically the practice of companies to have work done by workers in areas of the world where labor is cheap. That particular practice is something very different than e.g. buying chips from a foundry. Specifically buying parts from q supplie…

> I think what the other poster is referring to is specifically the practice of companies to have work done by workers in areas of the world where labor is cheap. Sure, but part of what I wanted to (albeit indirectly) convey is the difficulty of creating a meaningful rule about this. Even if you locked work within a country's borders (I imagine this would have terrible consequences too), this concept scales. I unders…

I agree, you actually always have to work with other companies. The alternative is not possible.

In general it is very easy and safe to work with companies in the same country as you, as they are bound by identical laws to you and litigation and control is relatively easy. They also can't legally re-outsource to companies you can't outsource to. Similar things are true if the company is in a broadly aligned country. E.g. the US and Germany.

The further away, physically, ideologically, linguistically and legally away the country of the other company is the worse it becomes and the harder it is to effectively control them.

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