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North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

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Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#91

Post by ch4s3 »

beaeglebeachh wrote: post #47
peppertree wrote: post #10

The real question is does North Korean let their animators work remote in a LOCL area.

Honestly if N Korea had a cheap/low-barrier remote visa it might be attractive. I would imagine having an oppressive authoritarian regime looking at you as a prime tax slave might mean none of the prols would risk getting their head chopped off to mess with you. Meanwhile labor/rent/food gotta be hella cheap.

North Korea doesn't have a great history with respect to foreign "guests"[1].

Here's a choice quote:

>The four lived together in a two-bedroom house outside of Pyongyang, where they were forced to study the writings of then-leader Kim Il Sung and were subject to regular beatings. They were also featured prominently in propaganda magazines and movies.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188656665/travis-king-north-...

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#92

Post by s1artibartfast »

geraldwhen wrote: post #77
karaterobot wrote: post #35

The HN headline is more clickbaitey than the original article, which has a different headline and goes out if its way to point out that Amazon and HBO are likely not the ones doing the outsourcing to North Korea. > There is no evidence to suggest that the companies identified in the images had any knowledge that a part of their project had been subcontracted to North Korean animators. In fact, as the editing comments…

Not really. Outsourcing and then claiming ignorance is not a defense against financing North Korea.

It absolutely is a defense.

We outsourced to company X, who is bound by law and contract not to engage in illegal actions. Company X, without our knowledge or approval subcontracted illegally.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#93

Post by tchbnl »

iamleppert wrote: post #78

This more than anything says why we need SORA AI now, and to replace these animators with AI. We cannot be allow to have reputable US firms engaging with a foreign adversary. Replacing these workers with AI should do the trick in this compliance snafu.

And of course here's the "AI solves everything" comment.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#94

Post by 10000truths »

colechristensen wrote: post #36
1123581321 wrote: post #8

Generally, how far downstream does the US State Department expect companies to vet vendors for sanctions violation? Due diligence this many layers deep is expensive, especially if hostile (investigative work to proactively discover dishonest sourcing reports.) I would think it would vary by industry--e.g. animation is obviously less stringent than medical devices so would have fewer reporting and certification struct…

The entire chain all the way down is sanctioned, the US can and will climb up and down that chain to punish sanctions violations. A company like Disney will have to have a Sanctions Compliance Program and like any other compliance regime, there are standards, external auditors, etc. to make sure enough is being done, and "enough" can be a bit of a moving target. If you get caught having sanctioned suppliers, those st…

> How guilty you are is a function of how good a job the state department thinks you're doing trying to avoid sanctions violations.

Is the standard for this codified in clear language anywhere, or is it merely based on the whims of some federal prosecutor/judge? If I make digital watches, and I buy coin cell batteries from a supplier who buys battery precursors from a supplier who buys LiCoO2 from a manufacturer who buys lithium-rich brine from a supplier who buys lithium mining equipment from a sanctioned entity, how much of the full brunt of Uncle Sam's retribution can I expect to come crashing down on me?

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#95

Post by icepat »

Arrath wrote: post #87
godelski wrote: post #20

Seems like a difficult problem to solve. It shows the importance of paying close attention. NK has shown to be quite good at bypassing sanctions but it seems that the link is almost always through China. It would seem that the best way to go about this would be through stricter negotiations with them, since they are already acting as a significant intermediary. Either they know about this or the great firewall is not…

To be fair its not only this thread.

The dodgy AI product spam attacks have been escalating recently, or so I've noticed. I don't think I've seen this with any other product class here.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#96

Post by yunohn »

geraldwhen wrote: post #77
karaterobot wrote: post #35

The HN headline is more clickbaitey than the original article, which has a different headline and goes out if its way to point out that Amazon and HBO are likely not the ones doing the outsourcing to North Korea. > There is no evidence to suggest that the companies identified in the images had any knowledge that a part of their project had been subcontracted to North Korean animators. In fact, as the editing comments…

Not really. Outsourcing and then claiming ignorance is not a defense against financing North Korea.

Apple does this too - they set wildly low payable rates and then get surprised when Foxconn grinds their workers to dust.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#97

Post by thriftwy »

colechristensen wrote: post #36
1123581321 wrote: post #8

Generally, how far downstream does the US State Department expect companies to vet vendors for sanctions violation? Due diligence this many layers deep is expensive, especially if hostile (investigative work to proactively discover dishonest sourcing reports.) I would think it would vary by industry--e.g. animation is obviously less stringent than medical devices so would have fewer reporting and certification struct…

The entire chain all the way down is sanctioned, the US can and will climb up and down that chain to punish sanctions violations. A company like Disney will have to have a Sanctions Compliance Program and like any other compliance regime, there are standards, external auditors, etc. to make sure enough is being done, and "enough" can be a bit of a moving target. If you get caught having sanctioned suppliers, those st…

Quite contrary I would say. An American megacorp will always know how much profit from the US sanctions it can do and get away with it. Sometimes a slap on the wrist can happen, but in general... You do want those campaign donations flowing, do you? Then there is no reason to rock the boat.

Smaller companies from other countries may not be so lucky so they may actually refrain from such activities.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#98

Post by karaterobot »

exhilaration wrote: post #88
karaterobot wrote: post #35

The HN headline is more clickbaitey than the original article, which has a different headline and goes out if its way to point out that Amazon and HBO are likely not the ones doing the outsourcing to North Korea. > There is no evidence to suggest that the companies identified in the images had any knowledge that a part of their project had been subcontracted to North Korean animators. In fact, as the editing comments…

But that's the most interesting part of the article - that Amazon and HBO projects are being worked on by NORTH KOREAN workers!!! I totally agree with the HN headline and I'm glad it got me to click and read the entire article.

If the headline is factually wrong, it doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#99

Post by beaeglebeachh »

ch4s3 wrote: post #91
beaeglebeachh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if N Korea had a cheap/low-barrier remote visa it might be attractive. I would imagine having an oppressive authoritarian regime looking at you as a prime tax slave might mean none of the prols would risk getting their head chopped off to mess with you. Meanwhile labor/rent/food gotta be hella cheap.

North Korea doesn't have a great history with respect to foreign "guests"[1]. Here's a choice quote: >The four lived together in a two-bedroom house outside of Pyongyang, where they were forced to study the writings of then-leader Kim Il Sung and were subject to regular beatings. They were also featured prominently in propaganda magazines and movies. [1] https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188656665/travis-king-north-...

Totally agree, but I'll point out they entered as technically enemy combatants, not with a visa.

And dresnok said the opposite and retired fat and with alcohol cirrhotic liver and a nice stolen wife and downtown apartment, which is far more than he would've got in USA as such a lazy, stupid, criminal that he was. He even become a local celebrity as a movie star playing as a white devil.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#100

Post by constantcrying »

If you are outsourcing over the entire globe things like this tend to happen. There is very little you can actually do to verify how the work you require really gets done, especially if the format is purely digital and there is no physical process you could monitor.

Companies building things in China have been caught in that trap multiple times and somewhere down the line the work was allegedly done by highly mistreated populations, potentially in slave like conditions. Certainly no company would want this to happen, as it is obviously a major PR disaster, but it is just very hard to oversee.

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