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North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

38north.org

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Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#101

Post by constantcrying »

karaterobot wrote: post #35

The HN headline is more clickbaitey than the original article, which has a different headline and goes out if its way to point out that Amazon and HBO are likely not the ones doing the outsourcing to North Korea. > There is no evidence to suggest that the companies identified in the images had any knowledge that a part of their project had been subcontracted to North Korean animators. In fact, as the editing comments…

I see nothing wrong with the headline. It accurately reflects what happened.

That it was unintentional should be quite obvious, anything else would have been a major scandal.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#102

Post by godelski »

noodlesUK wrote: post #68
godelski wrote: post #20

Seems like a difficult problem to solve. It shows the importance of paying close attention. NK has shown to be quite good at bypassing sanctions but it seems that the link is almost always through China. It would seem that the best way to go about this would be through stricter negotiations with them, since they are already acting as a significant intermediary. Either they know about this or the great firewall is not…

It’s certainly interesting seeing the thread get attacked so obviously - that’s a first as far as I’ve seen on HN. In terms of the actual story I think that we should be careful not to introduce insane KYC for contractors just to avoid the NK boogeyman. If such measures were introduced, that would seriously restrict the ability to work with people from around the world. I also fear that scammy companies such as id.me…

Yeah that is something I'd be worried about as a potential "solution." It should not involve placing spyware on contractor's systems. And it should not involve bureaucracy dependency hell either.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#103

Post by carlosjobim »

Arrath wrote: post #85
geraldwhen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Outsourcing and then claiming ignorance is not a defense against financing North Korea.

Classic 'two steps removed' syndrome. "I told X to get it done. What X did to get it done is not my fault/responsibility."

What do you mean with "syndrome"? Of course business customers can not be held responsible for what other businesses do. If Amazon buys floor tiles for their factories from a company that provides floor tiles to many other companies, how can Amazon be held responsible for any of their unethical practices?

Or is it the faith of hackers that any misdoing in the world should always be traced back and blamed on a tech giant? From the article:

"There is no evidence to suggest that the companies identified in the images had any knowledge that a part of their project had been subcontracted to North Korean animators."

If it's a subsidiary, that's another case.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#104

Post by constantcrying »

geraldwhen wrote: post #77
karaterobot wrote: post #35

The HN headline is more clickbaitey than the original article, which has a different headline and goes out if its way to point out that Amazon and HBO are likely not the ones doing the outsourcing to North Korea. > There is no evidence to suggest that the companies identified in the images had any knowledge that a part of their project had been subcontracted to North Korean animators. In fact, as the editing comments…

Not really. Outsourcing and then claiming ignorance is not a defense against financing North Korea.

It is a defense. Even in a court of law not knowing about something can potentially protect you from punishment.

It is just a part of the nature of outsourcing. Your supplier might just choose to outsource himself and have the work done by companies you couldn't possibly work with. For a digital good this is extremely hard to monitor. How would a Californian studio possibly know what company their supplier outsources to?

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#107

Post by vundercind »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #76
LarsDu88 wrote: post #31

When I saw the title, I immediately thought of the show "Invincible" which had abysmal animation, and lo and behold, its right there are the top of the list.

Our of curiosity why did you think Invincible had abysmal animation? Which is ironic since in the last seasons they even broke the fourth wall and did a tongue in cheek poke at their audience who criticize their animation quality explaining how they're under crunch and what techniques they use to cut corners. Quite clever actually. Didn't think they were covering up their North Korean animators though lol.

I’ve only seen season 1 but it’s barely even animation. It looks like “motion comics”.

I enjoyed it anyway (I liked the comic, and this is playing out like a “second draft” with some stuff tightened up, so that’s really cool to see) but it’s one of the worst-looking animated anythings I’ve seen. It’s on par with the bottom half of amateur Flash animation in the ‘00s.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#109

Post by constantcrying »

duxup wrote: post #75

The few times I was involved in some outsourcing the outsourcing company was contractually obliged to actually be the one doing the work. Not that folks might not cheat and get away with it, but there were financial implications and a somewhat close working relationship that meant that ... it would have been hard to fake. In this case does the original company just not care at all?

I would be surprised if the same wasn't the case here. Any half competent legal department would at least have it be part of their contract that the subcontractor can't outsource to parties with whom the contracting party is not allowed to cooperate.

But how do you verify who does the work? Contracts are nice and all, but how do you make sure they are followed?

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#110

Post by godelski »

pvg wrote: post #55
godelski wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@dang is a signifier that makes it easier for dang to visually see his name (or search and differentiate from the more common word) in comments. I was writing an email but I won't send if you got this covered. Thanks

is a signifier that makes it easier for dang to visually see his name It isn't. That's been explained in many threads of his comments, I feel reasonably sure some as previous replies to you.

> It isn't.

Well __I__ can visually distinguish a username more easily with @ in front of it. Just the same way as I, and many others, use various typographical marks to indicate various things. It does also make a *manual* thread search easier.

I feel reasonably confident that the vast majority of people doing this are not expecting @dang to be pinged, but are just using it either due to habit and/or a visual indicator. Either way, I'm not sure why this is such a big deal and worth more than a single exchange. Potentially someone doesn't know, it is okay to inform them, but after "I know" or "I didn't know" there is no more to be said.

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