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Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

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321–330 of 497 posts

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#321

Using Meta as a source of good management is a fallacy that needs to be tackled. Meta has only managed to release one new "domestic" product since facebook advertising (threads) and only one of the features released on the main apps has stuck (reels) there is no strategic direction at meta, its a mass of noise, poor project management and bloated orgs craving for any metric of success other than what makes the user h…

Do you use Instagram much?

Stories and Live have become such integral parts of the platform, for some people that's all they use it for. No posts, no reels, just ephemeral content.

One sector of a company bringing in the lion's share of the revenue isn't necessarily a red flag, it's actually the case for a _lot_ of companies. G being the most obvious example.

"Meta can't innovate" is a take I've been reading online since 2014. If your analysis was correct, do you really think it'd be worth nearly 10x what it was 10 years ago?

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some limit to how many people you can manage effectively. So, in a company with, say, 10,000 employees, you can't have just one layer of management between COs and ICs. You'd either need each manager to work with 500 direct reports, or you'd need the COs to work with 500 managers. If we look at 100,000 employee orgs, this gets even sillier. If you even attempt something like this, what will actually happen w…

Depends on if you are managing people or you are micromanaging people. It should be possible to manage 22 employees if you are good at setting directions and explaining why those directions have been chosen. You can have 22 people in one room and do functional group discussions, this is like a good size for a school class. 1 CEO -> 22 level A managers each level A manager -> 22 level B = 22 * 22 = 484 level B each le…

Your model assumes the CEO and all others on the path are full time people managers. In reality, the upper layers of management have many other roles, from customer engagements to political lobbying to CSR to strategy etc. They can manage nowhere near 22 direct reports.

Additionally, geographic distribution is important. You can't have one manager in the USA managing 7 direct reports from Germany, 7 from India, and 8 from China. So, you need 1 site leader for each of these, that the 6-7 middle managers report to. These all add up very quickly to take the theoretical 2-3 minimum required layers to 6-8 layers in practice, without requiring any of those along the way to be micromanagers.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#323

> Stewart Butterfield, former CEO of Slack, recently described a dynamic within tech companies behind much of the over-hiring. He noted on Bloomberg’s Odd Lots podcast in late May that when there’s no real constraint on hiring, “you hire someone, and the first thing that person wants to do is hire other people.” The reason is that “the more people who report to you, the higher your prestige, the more your power in th…

> But sadly there just is no counteracting force (except perhaps mr Musk). When you apply for your next job as a manager they will ask you “How big was your team?”, and they won’t be impressed when you say “I managed to keep it down to four people”. I honestly would strongly prefer 4 people who are highly smart (think prodigy- or genius-level) below me than 20 "somewhat intelligent" employees (i.e. what at least 95 %…

> "somewhat intelligent" employees (i.e. what at least 95 % of employees are).

sweet summer child.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#324

> Stewart Butterfield, former CEO of Slack, recently described a dynamic within tech companies behind much of the over-hiring. He noted on Bloomberg’s Odd Lots podcast in late May that when there’s no real constraint on hiring, “you hire someone, and the first thing that person wants to do is hire other people.” The reason is that “the more people who report to you, the higher your prestige, the more your power in th…

It’s because companies are fat and happy and don’t have enough to do. There’s not alot of hunger for more comp or accomplishment because the org works and people are paid well.

Thats the same dynamic in civil service environments. Some people are motivated by dick measuring contests, and life will find a way to give those folks a metric. When I was a director at a large agency, one of my peers came into my office, proud as a peacock, to let me know that a re-org meant that he now had 113 employees. It smashed his soul when he realized I had more.

It’s all huff and puff.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#325

I have forgotten the name of another big company that tried this and kinda failed. I hope something comes out of this for Bayer. I remember this because I liked the idea in general and the term stuck with me -- Holacracy (I think I read a book too). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy

I worked for a company that claimed to use this system. Got fired after arguing with my totally no boss.

> claimed

That's the issue: hidden power structures. But holacracy is not automatically false.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#326
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managers want to hire more people because teams are way under-staffed. I’ve never worked on a team that had enough people to do the important things with leeway for sickness vacation and turnover. Maybe there is empire building going on, but I think it’s deeper than that.

Well managed BigCorps are overstaffed 2x. Badly managed BigCorps are overstaffed 3x (or more). If there is insufficient manpower, it is often because they are building things they shouldn't. At least this was my experience.

Bingo. I find that limiting headcount is a great forcing function for only doing what's important. The classic example is Google making X different chat apps. That doesn't happen unless a company is severely overstaffed.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#327
post #195

"Bayer, the 160-year-old German company known for inventing aspirin, has been stuck in a rut:..." More accurately that should read: "Bayer, the 160-year-old German company known for inventing aspirin and co-inventing then widely commercializing heroin (diacetylmorphine), has been stuck in a rut:..." Bayer's chemist Felix Hoffmann synthesised heroin just short of two weeks after that of aspirin in 1897. Bayer thought…

Diaacetylmorphone (diamorphine) is a very effective painkiller still used in the UK. https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/diamorphine-hydrochloride/

I'm not in the UK but Oz, and I'm aware the UK has permitted the medical use of heroin since 1926. It's some years since I learned of the matter so I've forgotten the specifics but as a signatory to drug treaties the UK struck heroin off its schedule of banned substances (unlike many other countries, the UK has always considered the medical use of heroin too important to have it withdrawn from its pharmacopoeia). My other half trained as a nurse at Barts and she was initially surprised that heroin wasn't used here especially for relief of intractable pain such as in terminal cancer cases (likewise Brompton cocktail/mixture—heroin, cocaine and sometimes other compounds).

Contrary to what may look like my alarm that heroin was ever discovered (or rediscovered by Bayer), my actual view is like that of the UK, that is, in cases of intractable pain heroin ought to be used more widely elsewhere. It's understandable why a substantial number of countries limited their use of opioids to morphine, pethidine etc. but as I see it as heroin is actually better at suppressing pain than morphine irrespective of dose then it should be available to those who actually need it on humanitarian grounds.

Banning the medical use of heroin because it's difficult to manage given the risk of diversion etc. I think is an unacceptable excuse, especially so nowadays. Perhaps that policy may have been acceptable when heroin was the strongest narcotic on the block, but it's highly questionable now given the widespread use of fentanyl which is almost two orders of magnitude more potent.

What I find so objectionable about Bayer is that I just do not believe that when Hoffmann and others at Bayer named the drug 'heroin' it was because, unlike morphine, they believed that it was free of addictive side effects; more likely it was 'heroic' because of its enormous commercial potential. By the time Bayer named heroin the addictive effects of opiates were well known. Laudanum had its critics at least 150 years earlier, and with the adoption of the hypodermic needle in the mid 19th Century and its widespread use in the US Civil War to administer opiates to wounded soldiers (many of whom became addicted) it's almost inconceivable that those at Bayer actually believed that heroin was non-addictive (especially given how little the molecules† differ from each other). Either that or they were irresponsible for not at least suspecting it so and testing the drug to that effect before they released it for public consumption.

Not that things are much better nowadays! As we've seen with the recent opioid crisis—Purdue Pharma, the despicable and greedy Sacklers and oxycodone/Oxycontin—it's much more about money and profit than for concern about consumers of the drug. I still find it astonishing that the opioid crisis happened. How was it possible that this crisis ever have happened?

Why were the regulators—the FDA—and the medical and pharmaceutical professions so gullible and or so asleep at the wheel that they could let this disaster happen, especially given the high profile nature of drug addiction, international narcotics treaties and the illicit trafficking of narcotics? Similarly, why did it happen given that just about every pharmaceutical text written in the last 100 or more years has very explicit references about narcotic drugs and their potential for addiction—same goes for medical training, where information about narcotic drugs and addiction is essential learning?

__

† Even back when Bayer introduced heroin to the market, Hoffmann et al would have been sufficiently familiar with the morphine molecule to know that its acetylation would have changed more the way it reacted than its intrinsic characteristics, that is, an opioid is an opioid and behaves like one irrespective of potency.

Incidentally, I use the name diacetylmorphine in preference to the more common diamorphine as it's more descriptive of the chemistry. The acetylation of morphine is a really nice example of the process because of the shape of both molecules makes it dead easy to understand what's happened. Even if one has little chemistry, an examination of the skeletal diagrams shows the basic morphine molecule remains essentially the same and with heroin the only change is that the two hydroxyl groups at one end get substituted for two acetyl ones.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#328
Self organising is rarely successful in my experience.

People don't like to be held accountable unless they're paid for it, so you end up with yes men and potentially the extroverts or narcissists of the group ruling the roost and making final decisions.

That is basically middle management with less oversight, no salary and less micromanaging.

In a company that makes pharmaceuticals that's probably not a great idea unless you're just about cutting the short term costs.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#329

> Stewart Butterfield, former CEO of Slack, recently described a dynamic within tech companies behind much of the over-hiring. He noted on Bloomberg’s Odd Lots podcast in late May that when there’s no real constraint on hiring, “you hire someone, and the first thing that person wants to do is hire other people.” The reason is that “the more people who report to you, the higher your prestige, the more your power in th…

This is called Parkinson's Law: https://www.economist.com/news/1955/11/19/parkinsons-law "To comprehend Factor I, we must picture a civil servant called A who finds himself overworked. Whether this overwork is real or imaginary is immaterial; but we should observe, in passing, that A’s sensation (or illusion) might easily result from his own decreasing energy—a normal symptom of middle-age. For this real or imagined…

One of my pet peeves is how few people read past the first line of the essay and think Parkinson’s Law is the opening quip about work expanding to fill the time available.

Thanks for the proper write up.

Re: Bayer is getting rid of bosses and asking staff to ‘self-organize’

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol… reminds me of a place I worked at where there were 2 developers on the project but 4 project managers. When the project was running late -> they hired 2 more managers!!

This is my current workplace. Projects have 1 developer and 2 project managers. The project managers are in meetings all day every day, doing what? And the developer is constantly being demanded to work impossibly tight deadlines, and deal with the project managers backtracking on the requirements. :/

This is the classic one guy digging the hole and ten observing him doing it.

I've had this discussion a few days ago and it's simply the problem of pay. As soon as you want to make more money you have 'to be in management and act like one' which is utter cow manure since adding managers is not going to make you any product and only delay it or make it worse but the end result is endless managers and not enough actual horses to carry the load.

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