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CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

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221–230 of 384 posts

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#221
post #66

I attended Lambda when it was first starting out. I think I was in the third or fourth cohort. At the time, the sell was that you didn't have to pay anything unless you got a job using the skills you learned from them. I was pretty naïve, I guess. Things seemed fine in the beginning. The instructors were good, and I liked that there were actual live classes. Things degraded very quickly. They kept changing the format…

> I went to a lawyer and was told it wasn't worth suing, because they required arbitration in NYC, which would cost more than I would save Could you do me a favour and look if they had conflicts? (Also, who was the arbitrator, AAA or JAMS? Because it shouldn't be more than $5k, and that's an extreme. Also, in most arbitration agreements, the company drafting the agreement pays the filing fees, which could knock off $…

I really don't understand this. Surely you can't arbitrate away statutory rights like this? Sorry, I'm not from the US, and this legal feature baffles me a bit.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#222

Are there any legit income-sharing schools of this type, tech or otherwise? Done fairly, it sounds like an interesting alternative to upfront tuition. On the surface it doesn't seem like a bad model, but of course it could be twisted to evil ends. From the article: > The loans carry substantial risk, as a single missed payment triggers a default and the remainder of the $30,000 “cap” becomes due immediately. > Studen…

Trade apprenticeships pay you to study, in return for low(er) entry wages via the union hierarchy.

This isn’t formalized into a loan, though. Which is better for the student.

https://www.lni.wa.gov/licensing-permits/apprenticeship/beco...

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarbanes Oxley already codifies corporate officer responsibility into law, so there's a pretty clear precedent.

Does Sarbanes Oxley codify culturing a culture? As far as my cursory glance at wikipedia has informed me, the act itself works around the “plausible deniability” by requiring certain disclosures containing factual information be signed off by key executive staff rendering it impossible for them to say “I didn’t know!” with regards to specific material information. The blanket concept of holding executive staff accoun…

[deleted]

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#224
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I went to a lawyer and was told it wasn't worth suing, because they required arbitration in NYC, which would cost more than I would save Could you do me a favour and look if they had conflicts? (Also, who was the arbitrator, AAA or JAMS? Because it shouldn't be more than $5k, and that's an extreme. Also, in most arbitration agreements, the company drafting the agreement pays the filing fees, which could knock off $…

I really don't understand this. Surely you can't arbitrate away statutory rights like this? Sorry, I'm not from the US, and this legal feature baffles me a bit.

> Surely you can't arbitrate away statutory rights like this?

You can’t, but the cost of enforcement can vary. In this case, it sounds like there was a bad counsel-case fit. (OP needed cheaper or better counsel.)

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#225

There's probably a good argument to ignore rule breaking and little deceptive marketing if the student outcomes are good but it looks like in-aggregate that they weren't and that students were better off taking a loan and attending Oregon State's Post Bac in CS or Hack Reactor.

And if you really believe you can succeed as an autodidact with minimal mentorship from previous batches of students, 42 schools[1] offer that for free. It's shameful YC was still shilling Lambda one year ago[2] even though there's been a mountain of evidence about its deceptive practices for many years. 1. https://www.42network.org 2. https://www.ycombinator.com/library/5N-on-starting-and-scali...

I'm still sad about 42 in Fremont closing, but if you live near one, it was quite worthwhile.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tech companies do you allege have/had "minority" quotas to fill?

Google goes to great lengths to increase diversity: https://about.google/belonging/diversity-annual-report/2021/...

There's quite a chasm between trying (and failing, but I digress) to increase diversity of the workforce and those imaginary quotas.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the corporate death penalty This is a silly idea lobbyists love because it sidesteps the actual corporate-destruction mechanism: liquidation to pay massive fines, license revocation and/or personal liability for senior management. Consider even the penalties here, which effectively ban Allred and Lambda from doing business. If you corporate death’d them, the contracts and assets would still exist. Allred would be u…

> If you corporate death’d them, the contracts and assets would still exist. Allred would be unpunished. Everything would go back to shareholders who were presumably fine with the status quo, and would be fine putting them into a new entity that Allred could manage. This is wrong for a variety of reasons: (1) The corporate death penalty is proposed as an additional remedy, not an alternative remedy, to personal liabi…

    > to personal liability for officers
This is required now for "financial record keeping and reporting" thanks to Sarbanes–Oxley Act. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#228
post #130

The Recurse Center[1] is the opposite of this. They don't take any of your income, they just help you find jobs and companies pay them to find cool people. And there is no curriculum. They believe that if people work on cool things they will learn a lot. I can't recommend it enough! [1]: https://www.recurse.com/

RC is not a bootcamp: https://www.recurse.com/not-a-bootcamp , so it's not at all comparable to this program

Yeah I always thought RC was like a writer’s retreat… but for software.

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#229
post #66

I attended Lambda when it was first starting out. I think I was in the third or fourth cohort. At the time, the sell was that you didn't have to pay anything unless you got a job using the skills you learned from them. I was pretty naïve, I guess. Things seemed fine in the beginning. The instructors were good, and I liked that there were actual live classes. Things degraded very quickly. They kept changing the format…

Please contact the CFPB, it is worth your trouble. Everyone's blood should be boiling reading TFA, such as: > Allred tweeted that the school achieved a 100 percent job-placement rate in one of its cohorts, and later acknowledged in a private message that the sample size was just one student.

100 % job placement rate 1 % of the time

Re: CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen Allred

#230
I don't understand why an Income Sharing Agreement would be classified as loans. They seem more like equity than debt; the amount that students would pay depends on their future income, and can be arbitrarily small or large (right? or maybe I am misunderstanding the terms of these agreements).

I had thought that debt is when you have to pay back at least the "principal" no matter what, and equity is when the financier shares the risk of you failing. Maybe that's not correct, though?

Does the definition of a "loan" include any sort of financing, even if the amount that needs to be "paid back" to the "lender" can be arbitrarily small or large? That would make equity financing a special case of debt.

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