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Descent 3 Source Code

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Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elite Dangerous delivers 6 DOF piloting goodness. https://youtu.be/T2-IHgNYaKA https://old.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/16xi20a/dua... https://youtu.be/9U0KNVQmlcM I miss this game... > Never understood why this concept didn’t become a whole genre. Spaceflight simulators have always been niche, unfortunately. Even more niche than flight simulators.

Most of the free roaming part of the game doesn't seem to make much use of this though; all the solar systems are effectively flat, space stations don't have a distinct up or down, granted, but you don't need to fly through tunnels etc. The pvp mode (Arena?) does offer loads of use for that aspect of it though. But, I could never get on with the combat style, it feels like you spend a lot of time turning your nose to…

I think a lot of the more experienced combat pilots will turn off flight assist so that the ship's nose doesn't have to be oriented with your momentum.

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#332
post #223

I'm working on making an open source version of Yoot Tower (aka Sim Tower, The Tower II) that runs in the browser! https://github.com/YootTowerManagement/YootTower What led to this being possible: There was recently a discussion about elevators on Hacker News, and somebody mentioned SimTower and asked about the algorithms it used, so I gave Yoot a call to ask him, and he mentioned he wanted to open source it. I enthu…

> Anybody want to help, or know somebody who does, please? ;) SimTower and Yoot Tower are some of my favorite games. Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I'd be interested in working on fixing up the C backend and doing a new interface (probably either in Qt or SDL+Dear ImGui). I tried doing an Emscripten version of one of my other projects ( https://github.com/ndiddy99/openmadoola ) but found that it req…

[deleted]

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#333
post #223

I'm working on making an open source version of Yoot Tower (aka Sim Tower, The Tower II) that runs in the browser! https://github.com/YootTowerManagement/YootTower What led to this being possible: There was recently a discussion about elevators on Hacker News, and somebody mentioned SimTower and asked about the algorithms it used, so I gave Yoot a call to ask him, and he mentioned he wanted to open source it. I enthu…

> Anybody want to help, or know somebody who does, please? ;) SimTower and Yoot Tower are some of my favorite games. Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I'd be interested in working on fixing up the C backend and doing a new interface (probably either in Qt or SDL+Dear ImGui). I tried doing an Emscripten version of one of my other projects ( https://github.com/ndiddy99/openmadoola ) but found that it req…

It's different for console games Madoola that are already low level and efficient and interacting directly with the hardware, but The Tower code needs to be de-windowsified (like I de-macified the SimCity code), because trying to add a layer of Windows emulation without restructuring the code is always going to be much slower and laggier (and vastly worse user experience) than stripping down the code to its essentials without any user interface, and then layering a new user interface on top of it.

It should be easy to compile the stripped down gui-less MicropolisEngine and YootTowerEngine with a native C++ compiler and make a new desktop user interface to it, once the work of stripping it down and removing the user interface code and replacing it with abstract interfaces is done. After I did that with the SimCity/Micropolis code, I integrated it with Python using SWIG, and wrote a PyGTK interface, and also a Python web server based interface that ran the user interface in the web browser with OpenLaszlo/Flash, communicating via AMF.

I want to push as much of the user interface out of the engine and into JavaScript/HTML/Canvas/SvelteKit as possible, since it's so much easier to make much better more advanced user interfaces with a modern stack than trying to deal with a crufty Windows emulation layer, and make improvements to that kind of code.

One thing I want to do is to make both Micropolis and Tower able to export lots of raw and cooked data, telemetry, and events, so I can use d3, Grafana, and other off-the-shelf data visualization tools to analyze and display the game state and history.

A couple decades ago an Earth Science professor Upmanu Lall at Columbia University proposed a great idea about developing an educational version of SimCity to use in his classes aimed at engaging students from other departments and getting them interested in data analysis and science. He wanted SimCity to simply be able to export spreadsheets of data, and have the students perform experiments and analyze the data using standard tools like Excel. A game like SimCity or SimTower would be an engaging way to pique the student's interest, that they could relate to, and motivate and teach a general literacy and understanding of spreadsheets and data analysis and visualization tools!

Upmanu Lall:

https://www.columbia.edu/~ula2/

Here's the Educational SimCity proposal I wrote, but it didn't go anywhere until many years later when we finally talked EA into relicensing SimCity under GPL-3 for the One Laptop per Child project.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050403103131/http://www.donhop...

>Educational Multi Player SimCity for Linux Proposal

>Back in March 2002, Maxis told me they were interested in supporting the educational use of products like SimCity. Earlier, I had developed a multi player version of SimCity, which runs on Linux/X11, and was scriptable in TCL. Educators and researchers from Columbia University, MIT, IBM, Xerox and other educational and commercial institutions were excited about gaining access to this version of SimCity, and adapting it to teach and stimulate students' interest in urban planning, computer simulation and game programming.

>So I wrote this proposal and presented it to Maxis. Maxis was quite enthusiastic about the idea, invited me in to discuss it, and said they would write up a contract which enabled me to distribute Multi Player SimCity for Linux, and adapt it to the needs of our educational users.

>Unfortunately, it's been almost two years since I sent the proposal, and I have never heard anything back from Maxis about this project. The software still exists, works very well, and is ready to distribute. But I can't distribute this Educationally Oriented Multi Player SimCity for Linux, until I hear back from Maxis about the contract. Despite my repeated email and phone messages asking about the status, Maxis never got back to me about this, or offered any explaination. So as far as I know, it's still tied up at EA Legal. I still wonder if they dropped the ball, or if they will finally come through after two years.

>SimCity.edu Proposal to Maxis

>Don Hopkins ported SimCity to Unix in 1991, working as a contractor for DUX Software, who licensed it from Maxis for a ten-year duration. He developed a cooperative networked multi player version of SimCity, released in 1993. He subsequently worked with Will Wright for Maxis/EA, developing The Sims character animation system, content pipeline, programming tools and user interface. Hopkins ported SimCity to Linux and optimized it, so it's a viable product as well as an engaging educational tool.

>Hopkins has demonstrated Multi Player SimCity at ACM's InterCHI Conference, IBM's New Paradigms Workshop, the Exploratorium's Multimedia Playground, Interval's Electric Carnival, BayCHI at Xerox PARC, and MIT Media Lab's corporate sponsors meeting. Audiences are consistently excited about the possibilities of using SimCity educationally.

>The ten-year contract between Maxis and DUX Software to distribute the Unix version of SimCity has expired, so it's not currently available as a product. Hopkins would like to license the rights from Maxis/EA directly, to develop an educational version of SimCity Classic. It can be distributed and played over the Internet like the popular ActiveX SimCity Classic, and extended to support educational uses.

>Columbia University uses SimCity and SimEarth to help teach Civil and Environmental Engineering. They are actively redesigning the curriculum to incorporate simulation games like SimCity and SimEarth, as well as developing a new simulation platform. Professor Upmanu Lall has applied for an NFS grant to develop an open system called OPTIMUS (Open Platform for Teaching Integrated Modeling and Urban Simulation). Don Hopkins is collaborating with Columbia University to develop simulation tools for education and research.

>The educators at Columbia University are excited about and willing to financially support the development of educational versions of SimCity and SimEarth. Hopkins hopes to make Multi Player SimCity for Linux available at low cost for educational use, while also selling it commercially to the small but enthusiastic Linux gaming community. The NFS grant can fund the development of the current Multi Player SimCity Classic into an educational tool, for Columbia and other universities to use in their Civil and Environmental Engineering curricula.

>This project doesn't require funding or work from Maxis/EA, and will support itself by generating a positive stream of royalties from commercial sales. The long-term benefits to Maxis, EA and society are quite positive: Columbia University will measure the effect of SimCity and other simulation tools on their goals of improving student enrolment and test scores. They will publish the results at conferences and in research papers, and make them available for other schools to use.

>Maxis's intellectual property and time will be protected, because Hopkins will insulate Columbia from the SimCity source code, and will also insulate Maxis from supporting the educational version of SimCity. Multi Player SimCity is already extensible through the TCL/Tk scripting language, and Hopkins will provide the hooks necessary for Columbia to use SimCity educationally, though scripting languages and component technology, without releasing any proprietary Maxis source code.

>The initial proposal is for Hopkins and Maxis/EA to enter into a contract granting Hopkins the right to commercially develop and distribute SimCity Classic, and also possibly SimEarth. Hopkins will further develop the software for Columbia University's educational use (at no expense to Maxis or EA), with the overall design subject to the approval of Maxis and EA. Maxis/EA will receive royalties on all sales of the product, and will also receive proper credit for its educational uses. This proposal is a rough draft, to start a dialog toward an agreement that will benefit everyone.

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once we get it cleaned up and have added MIT licensing and copyright notices to the code, it should be possible to build and release the Windows sources, but the Nintendo Gameboy sources are chock full of proprietary Nintendo stuff. I would love to release a Windows build that fixes the save crashing bug that LGR encountered in his excellent video about Yoot Tower. He says the Mac version was rock solid but the Windo…

Have you asked Mr Saito if they still have the Mac version in particular? A lot of the content seems specific depending on the platform it was released on. Getting everything archived would be great for preservation

I will ask him! It would be great to have the original Mac versions. There are some other weird versions like 3DO and Sega Saturn, but I'm afraid they may be lost in the sands to time. I'm collaborating with some game archivists (like Phil Salvador, who wrote the article about SimRefinery that led to its recovery, and his Video Game History Foundation), and Olde Sküül game developers Rebecca Heineman, who can help preserve the original sources, and even recover the original tools and SDKs and get them to build, so people can study and build and renovate the original sources.

https://gamehistory.org/source/

https://obscuritory.com/sim/when-simcity-got-serious/

https://obscuritory.com/sim/simrefinery-recovered/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Heineman

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#335
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has nausea initially when using VR. It will go away eventually. You need to train your brain to not feel G forces when you see movement.

It may sound crazy, but I have never felt nausea with a computer. The only issue I had with VR was my hair trying to cover my eyes, in the middle of a race, and that was it. However, once I rented a plane to go over the Nazca lines, and it was in a tiny plane, that was capable of changing direction very easily. That day I felt nausea. By this, I mean you can't ignore it, it is a strong sensation. So much, that the gu…

I've never felt nauseated from VR either. Tried it as a teenager in the 90s with an old-school Lawnmower-Man-style HMD, several generations of Oculus goggles, two different commercial HMDs in immersive gaming venues, etc. I do remember feeling disoriented when first playing the original Descent in the 90s, but no nausea.

In a small (3-4 seat) plane, I got a little nervous from the sudden changes in direction, but I didn't feel nauseated then either. I've been on one of those astronaut trainer 3-axis spinning chair contraptions a few times when I was younger and didn't feel any ill effects. I thought it was a fun experience.

I have gotten a weird variation on motion sickness a few times when I was on small boats. I'd be fine on the boat itself, but a day or two later, back on land, I'd feel like the surface of the Earth was bobbing up and down the way the boat had. It went away in a few hours or less, but it was hard to do anything productive while it lasted. I still didn't feel like I was going to vomit.

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#336
post #321

https://github.com/kevinbentley/Descent3/issues/32 >It seems that commits prior to 6a7a141 were covered under the MIT license. It's unclear why it was deleted (the commit message is only "Delete"). Not currently free software / open source for some reason, no LICENSE file at the moment. For those who were also wondering.

Try not to read too much into that, the MIT license was in the original blank repo I started with. There are a few questions I need to get answered, so the lack of that file doesn't necessarily mean anything about the license. The previous Descent 1&2 releases were under the license seen here, I would expect that at minimum (minimum permissibility-wise):

https://github.com/OpenSourcedGames/Descent-2

I'm hoping the owners will be able to agree to MIT, but we're doing due diligence right now.

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> enemies that were smart and could snipe you I had Descent 1 on PS1, and I remember the box claiming the enemies adapted to your play style. Now that I'm older and have studied machine learning and some other AI techniques, I've always wondered exactly what that meant. I'm sure my PS1 wasn't doing gradient descent (heh). What tricks were behind the claim that the enemies learned and adapted to the player?

AIMain.cpp is 7kloc. Searching for relevant words yields nothing, but it's not impossible to code something along the lines of "if the players flies around like crazy, do one thing, if he sits in the corner, do another".

I don't know how much Descent 3 shares with the original in terms of AI code, but Descent 3 seems to give NPCs a dynamic list of goals that's initialized based on their class ("stalker", "evader", etc.).[1] Each goal has a priority/weight, and criteria that will cause the goal to be enabled or not. Some of the goal enablers are straightforward, but others look more like state machine "emotion" states - fear, curiousity, etc.[2]

Seems complex enough to meet the description on the box for the original Descent.

[1] https://github.com/kevinbentley/Descent3/blob/86141b82295e71...

[2] https://github.com/kevinbentley/Descent3/blob/86141b82295e71...

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've brought up Kali a few times on HN and never had anyone say they used it too. Glad to finally see another person! What an amazing piece of technology. I used it to play a modded version of Diablo's expansion Hellfire, which without Kali was single player only / LAN with a little hack. There was a great little community on that app.

I used Kali as well. Mostly for Warcraft 2. This must have been before Battle.net.

That’s how a lot of people got started with Kali! It was bundled with the original WC2 CD. WC2 didn’t support battle.net until much later, as Diablo was the first Blizzard game to use it.

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#339
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried it and literally couldn’t figure it out. I got like 15 minutes into and had no idea what to do. What makes it so good?

It's basically a really well implemented Newtonian physics based platformer in a deterministic universe on a time loop that resets (22 minutes), so the loop is basically figure out how to get some place and then execute it (i.e. you could decide you want to de-orbit the moon into its planet, practice it, and get it right). Timing also matters as the celestial bodies orbit around and some of them fall apart. So maybe…

I think that's sort of true, but unlike Disco Elysium - which I simply loved - the bits of Outer Wilds I loved were at odds with the fact that basically all of the worlds gave me anxiety from their specific quirks (plus, I found them all being so small - especially the ones closest to the sun - made me constantly worried about falling off), and I couldn't finish it. (I did watch a YouTube play through to get some of the experience without the terror later)

Re: Descent 3 Source Code

#340
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add some missing context (though perhaps also to spoil my husband's joke) - Koolbear, whose real first name is Mike, founded and was instrumental in the life of the forum where the two of us met and has been a hero and inspiration to both of us. Jediluke, whose real first name is David, is the most vigorous and prolific competitor the game has ever seen, recognized by pilots of practically every era and environmen…

Yall are too cute :)

What an awesome thread with these three catching up. I love it!

90s gaming and hacking things together (or apart) was absolutely what got me into programming, too.

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