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Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#71

Post by duffmancd »

rswail wrote: post #23

In Australia, we have "Fringe Benefits Tax" which applies to that sort of thing. Basically anything that is considered a non-cash benefit is FBT tax owed by the employer. The tax is at the current maximum marginal income tax rate (47%) on a "grossed up" value of the benefit (currently 2.08). So $1000 of benefit is grossed up to $2080, then taxed at 47% so FBT of $977.60. Employer can deduct cost of the benefit ($1000…

If anyone is wondering where 2.08 comes from like me. First we consider the case with no GST, where the gross-up multiplier is x1.8868 ($1887). This is the pre-tax earnings at 47% required to get a post-tax benefit of $1000. i.e. $1887 x (1-47%) = $1000. With some algebra and setting the top marginal tax rate to R, and the Gross-up to G: G=1/(1-R). The idea is the Government gets its cut either way, there is no tax benefit (for employees in the highest bracket, and actually a net loss for employees not in that bracket).

If the employer can claim back GST (currently 10%) on the original purchase, the formula for G becomes G=1/(1-R)+(1/11)/R. To account for the extra 10%/110% that the employer can claim back.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#72

Post by sumtechguy »

rickdeckard wrote: post #31
ido wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it have been worse? I don’t recall dos games running any slower under windows 95 than under dos.

On the Hardware I had it was definitely worse to run a game from within Win95. Oh, the flashbacks of tweaking config.sys and autoexec.bat to cram as close to 640KB RAM as possible just to execute a game... The "and here comes the HIMEM.SYS, here EMM386.EXE, then I need MSCDEX to get my CD-ROM...damn...okay, I don't really need the keyboard driver for this..."

With that particular game it was a matter of memory. If you had 8MB or less free you were in for a BAD time. Ideally the thing really wants 16. So loading it inside of windows would be an interesting time as it uses its own chunk of memory off the top.

Learned that years after I had finished the game. I had an 8MB machine and updated it to 16. Wing Commander 3 went from taking minutes to load each level to doing it in seconds.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#73

Post by ProblemFactory »

michaelt wrote: post #38
kazinator wrote: post #7

What does it mean to "keep" the software? You can return the installation media, and say you erased the program, without having erased it. I would say that if you work for Microsoft and they give you a program free in order to test, then it's not a form of income. The program doesn't represent monetary value in that situation. Microsoft, the copyright holder, is licensing you to have a copy of that program under term…

> Microsoft, the copyright holder, is licensing you to have a copy of that program under terms which do not involve exchange of money. As I recall, this anecdote is part of a larger story: * This was at a time where it was common to buy software in retail stores, it would come in a fancy cardboard box with a stack of floppy disks (or a CD-ROM), a printed manual, a warranty card you could mail in, and so on. * Microso…

> If I could give my employees a $50k cash bonus and it got taxed at 24% or I could gift them a $50k car "for testing" and it was tax free, everyone would be getting paid in cars.

Belgium has exactly that (use of a car is tax-free) and as a result company cars are wildly popular. Getting rid of this tax loophole has been unpopular, but as a compromise they will only apply it to electric cars in the future.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#74

Post by fred_is_fred »

criddell wrote: post #61

The tax question I've always had is around conferences. If I attend a work-related conference in California, I'm being paid to be there and so that's California sourced income and I have to file taxes, right? During the pandemic when everybody was working from home, I thought about renting some place with more interesting scenery for a few weeks. I mentioned it to my bosses and was given a very short list of places w…

I briefly worked for a very large consulting company after an acquisition. As a part of the acquisition we were flown to a large city for 3 days of meetings. My next pay stub showed hours for my home state, hours for the state where we had meetings and a remittance for city income tax also. I left right after, but I still had to file:

Federal

State (mine)

State (meeting state for 2 days)

City (meeting city for 2 days)

No other company has ever done that to me, I assume it provided some benefit to my company to do it that way.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#75

Post by mdekkers »

tux3 wrote: post #58
mdekkers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No coercion? Try not paying it.

Right. But this position applies equally to all taxes. So that's a general "taxation is theft" type position. Which is fine in general, just not specific to this particular tax.

I don’t believe all taxes are equal, or bad. But some are terrible, such as this one.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#76

Post by tux3 »

mdekkers wrote: post #75
tux3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But this position applies equally to all taxes. So that's a general "taxation is theft" type position. Which is fine in general, just not specific to this particular tax.

I don’t believe all taxes are equal, or bad. But some are terrible, such as this one.

I agree this one is terrible, but I don't think it's because this one is racketeering.

If we think this tax is a racket, we should equally think that all taxes are a racket. That's because your "Try not paying it" argument applies to all taxes.

If we think this tax is uniquely bad, there should be another reason that it's bad. Which is my point.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#77

Post by barryrandall »

criddell wrote: post #61

The tax question I've always had is around conferences. If I attend a work-related conference in California, I'm being paid to be there and so that's California sourced income and I have to file taxes, right? During the pandemic when everybody was working from home, I thought about renting some place with more interesting scenery for a few weeks. I mentioned it to my bosses and was given a very short list of places w…

That's one of the reasons why Mexico and Canada are so popular for company meetings.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#78

Post by cqqxo4zV46cp »

londons_explore wrote: post #62
rjst01 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS decided in 2002 that taxing air miles was too difficult: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/a-02-18.pdf , but I wonder if this might change in the future if airlines continue to shift towards programs that reward dollars spent rather than miles flown + ticket class. Some countries have specific legislation to exclude air miles.

That announcement is really depressing. It isn't saying "airmiles aren't taxable". It says "we promise not to enforce laws about tax on airmiles". As a law abiding citizen, I now have a moral dilemma. Pay tax as the law says, or don't pay tax because the government promised not to punish me? Where will the latter lead? It's fine to do other crimes as long as you know the government usually won't prosecute? It's fine…

It’s not a moral dilemma. You are a just acting like an engineer looking for black and white answers in the face of real-world muddiness.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#79

Post by lasereyes136 »

criddell wrote: post #61

The tax question I've always had is around conferences. If I attend a work-related conference in California, I'm being paid to be there and so that's California sourced income and I have to file taxes, right? During the pandemic when everybody was working from home, I thought about renting some place with more interesting scenery for a few weeks. I mentioned it to my bosses and was given a very short list of places w…

Ask a tax lawyer.

My understanding, which is not legal or tax advice, is that, as a private person, you pay taxes in the state you have your primary residence in. There are a lot of rules around what it means to have a primary residence, so you need to check those.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#80

Post by mrguyorama »

lb1lf wrote: post #39
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember playing (and finishing) it on a 166 MHz Win 95 machine.

As do I, on a 166MHz MMX with a whopping 64MB of RAM. First computer I bought with my own money, pored over computer magazines for weeks to figure out how to get the best bang for my buck. Ended up with a Matrox Millenium 4MB graphics card with a 3dfx Voodoo on top, if memory serves. The budget was maxed out to the extent that the owner of the shop I purchased all the parts at agreed to drive me the two miles back to…

Why so much RAM? My Windows 95 computer had 32mb of RAM and even that was overkill.
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