Live data from Hacker News

Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

devblogs.microsoft.com

11–20 of 117 posts

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#11

What does it mean to "keep" the software? You can return the installation media, and say you erased the program, without having erased it. I would say that if you work for Microsoft and they give you a program free in order to test, then it's not a form of income. The program doesn't represent monetary value in that situation. Microsoft, the copyright holder, is licensing you to have a copy of that program under term…

Eh, well, in this scenario they did keep the installation media, and Microsoft isn't in a position to add resale terms to other parties software, etc., etc. They are not the copyright holder.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#12
post #5

Huh. I would argue that the software remained the property of Microsoft, and so there were no tax consequences. Presumably if the Windows 95 development manager said, a year later, "Hey guys, time to give all that stuff back," they would. It's just that nobody asked for it.

Employees leave and they presumably didn't ask for anything not in inventory and couldn't ask afterwards with any consequences..

I would view it similar to letting people pick through your ewaste trash. It might have value but the company has written it off.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#13
post #3

Wait, they managed to get Wing Commander 3 working on Windows 95?? > Bonus chatter: During one of the many iterations of this story being retold, someone remarked that they got a copy of the video game Wing Commander III through this exercise. I immediately remembered that they fulfilled their expectation by filing a bug against Windows 95: When you earned the cloaking device on level 58 or something, you couldn’t ac…

I remember playing (and finishing) it on a 166 MHz Win 95 machine.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#14
post #5

Huh. I would argue that the software remained the property of Microsoft, and so there were no tax consequences. Presumably if the Windows 95 development manager said, a year later, "Hey guys, time to give all that stuff back," they would. It's just that nobody asked for it.

The linked post has more details. It was an explicit "you test the software and get to keep it for yourself after that".

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#15

What does it mean to "keep" the software? You can return the installation media, and say you erased the program, without having erased it. I would say that if you work for Microsoft and they give you a program free in order to test, then it's not a form of income. The program doesn't represent monetary value in that situation. Microsoft, the copyright holder, is licensing you to have a copy of that program under term…

> Something given to you cannot count as income if you cannot resell it, or not legally.

That definition definitely doesn’t pass muster. You can gift employees Spotify accounts, in their name. Not resellable, definitely a gift.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#16

What if it's not your employer? If you buy a pizza for $25 and get another one free, is that also $25 income that is only exempt due to de minimis ?

Yes.

Gifts are taxable when they accumulate to a certain size.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#17

What if it's not your employer? If you buy a pizza for $25 and get another one free, is that also $25 income that is only exempt due to de minimis ?

That is considered a sales discount (you wouldn’t get a free pizza without buying another one), and as such not taxable. Just as if you’d buy something on a 50% sale.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#18

What does it mean to "keep" the software? You can return the installation media, and say you erased the program, without having erased it. I would say that if you work for Microsoft and they give you a program free in order to test, then it's not a form of income. The program doesn't represent monetary value in that situation. Microsoft, the copyright holder, is licensing you to have a copy of that program under term…

> Microsoft, the copyright holder

Nope. The entire point of this was testing third-party off-the-shelf software.

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#19

What if it's not your employer? If you buy a pizza for $25 and get another one free, is that also $25 income that is only exempt due to de minimis ?

Yes. Gifts are taxable when they accumulate to a certain size.

(Disclaimer: not tax advice. If you get one from randos on the internet, it’s your own fault).

In the US, gifts may be due taxes by the giver, not the recipient.

In the above case, the question was if it was a gift (and not needed to be paid taxes for by the recipients), or payment for work (which is taxed)

Re: Tax consequences of WIN95 team members keeping a piece of software for testing

#20

What if it's not your employer? If you buy a pizza for $25 and get another one free, is that also $25 income that is only exempt due to de minimis ?

It it's not your employer, then for tax purposes it will be considered that you bought your pizzas at $12.5. You always get to pay sales taxes on the $25 amount.

If it is your employer giving you the pizza, there is a different story. I can't tell you how it would work in USA, but I'll tell you how it would work in Sweden. In a few cases, which include you being an employee of United Nations, you wouldn't pay taxes on the pizza (hurray!). But if you don't qualify for the exceptions, your employer would have to account for the $25 as if it were salary and tax it accordingly. Just for amusement purposes I've computed that for you: 33% in income tax, 31.4% in payroll tax, 20% in state tax if you earn over $4500/month, and 12% in VAT (but that one your employer gets to zero in this particular example). The 31.4% is not subtracted from your payout but just paid by your employer (or yourself, if you are self-employed). All in all, you eat your free pizza worth $25 and your employer deducts from your salary $13.3 to pay in taxes, and in addition to that pays $8 in payroll taxes. That gives the tax office a neat $21 for that $25 pizza you ate for "free". Your employer also has to pay for the pizza, of course, but they can deduce whatever VAT was in its price.

Post reply on HN