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Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

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Re: Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

#61
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping screenshots of that would be a weird hobby. I was thinking of tweets mostly. Here's the timeline of misguided Vox articles. https://www.vox.com/2020/2/7/21126758/coronavirus-xenophobia... - early "the real pandemic is racism" stuff (note this is hard to find because the phrase was later totally overwritten by George Floyd/BLM protests) https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/2/13/21128209/coronavirus-fe... - people i…

From your first article above: "At a middle school a few blocks from my house, a rumor circulated among the children that all Asian kids have the coronavirus and should be quarantined.” How is that not racism and xenophobia? The parts about washing your hands was because they didn't know that the virus was airborne yet. They were giving out reasonable recommendations while waiting for more information. What were you…

> How is that not racism and xenophobia?

It is, but it's not "the real pandemic". As it turned out, the real pandemic was the pandemic.

The immediately available silly reaction linked from there is all the articles about how actually the flu was a more real threat, but the one I originally referenced was on social media.

> The parts about washing your hands was because they didn't know that the virus was airborne yet.

You should assume a respiratory virus is airborne. Western public health people had two big problems; one being they were stuck on the last battle and couldn't ever admit anything was airborne because norovirus, HIV, etc weren't, and the other being that leaders were only capable of saying things that sounded leader-y and social media people were only capable of saying things that sounded progressive, and neither of them were interested in if those things were true. So the leaders went to lying about face masks not being effective because they thought it would reduce panic somehow, and the social media people went to telling people not to be racist.

> What were you expecting? That they would magically know exactly what to do for this particular pandemic from day one?

Yes, because that's what China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan did, and they were closer to the action.

> Do you realise if they did, then it would have been one of those "oh the experts panicked and nothing bad happened" (like previous sars outbreaks).

The difference was pretty immediately observable since this one actually did break out and the previous ones didn't.

Re: Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your first article above: "At a middle school a few blocks from my house, a rumor circulated among the children that all Asian kids have the coronavirus and should be quarantined.” How is that not racism and xenophobia? The parts about washing your hands was because they didn't know that the virus was airborne yet. They were giving out reasonable recommendations while waiting for more information. What were you…

> How is that not racism and xenophobia? It is, but it's not "the real pandemic". As it turned out, the real pandemic was the pandemic. The immediately available silly reaction linked from there is all the articles about how actually the flu was a more real threat, but the one I originally referenced was on social media. > The parts about washing your hands was because they didn't know that the virus was airborne yet…

> As it turned out, the real pandemic was the pandemic.

No, it wasn't a pandemic yet. I "knew" it was going to blow up, because I'm a pessimist, I predicted 5 of the last 0 world wars since the 90s. But they were right to say it wasn't a pandemic, because it wasn't one yet.

The east Asian countries have been tough on respiratory diseases for a while because they're used to it and they have a more community/society bent than the western world. They are also more willing to be authoritarian especially with public health. But you wouldn't like it if your door was welded shut, and you'd cry like a bitch.

> The difference was pretty immediately observable since this one actually did break out and the previous ones didn't.

Do you think there might be a reason the others didn't?

Re: Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

#63
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is that not racism and xenophobia? It is, but it's not "the real pandemic". As it turned out, the real pandemic was the pandemic. The immediately available silly reaction linked from there is all the articles about how actually the flu was a more real threat, but the one I originally referenced was on social media. > The parts about washing your hands was because they didn't know that the virus was airborne yet…

> As it turned out, the real pandemic was the pandemic. No, it wasn't a pandemic yet. I "knew" it was going to blow up, because I'm a pessimist, I predicted 5 of the last 0 world wars since the 90s. But they were right to say it wasn't a pandemic, because it wasn't one yet. The east Asian countries have been tough on respiratory diseases for a while because they're used to it and they have a more community/society be…

> But they were right to say it wasn't a pandemic, because it wasn't one yet.

It was in China. You could see it.

> The east Asian countries have been tough on respiratory diseases for a while because they're used to it

Only two of them. Japan and Korea weren't - Japanese people wear face masks mostly because of pollen allergies.

> and they have a more community/society bent than the western world.

I listed four completely different countries. (Also, IME Japanese people are actually more individualistic than Americans. Though they pretend they aren't.)

> They are also more willing to be authoritarian especially with public health.

Japan's policies involved no such thing, in fact they have fewer legal powers than US public health officers do and explicitly said this was the reason they didn't do several things we did. Nevertheless, they were both successful and reversed policies a lot less often than we did. It mostly involved discouraging large crowds indoors ("C3") but not what you'd call "lockdown".

> Do you think there might be a reason the others didn't?

We don't need to construct a cause, since you do that to predict an outcome, but we could already observe different outcomes from the different growth rate.

Re: Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

#64
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any other professional category that gets sued if they don't predict disaster within tight timing? Imagine suing epidemiologists because they didn't predict Covid-19 in a timely manner.

No epidemiologists were going around saying "eh it could never happen". In fact, many of them were warning after SARS. Trump actually took apart Obama's virus disaster-readiness warehouses and other programs in 2018-2019. Very bad timing, many such cases! I would suspect the majority of disaster-related experts are not going to be so laid back.

Yeah but couldn't seismologists just never say anything about the matter?

Re: Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

#65

I sat in on a lecture by a Stanford geophysicist, and he said that seismologists have every legal incentive to communicate that a large earthquake is imminent in the Bay, even if their work is inconclusive or suggests otherwise. They might get sued or prosecuted if they say it’s safe and a big one strikes.

That will not happen in the US court system. Also, the Guardian article below about this happening to scientists was in the Italian court system, not the US.

Re: Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically neither really. the energy unleashed by even moderate earthquakes through natural tectonic tension release is proportional to the degree of accumulated tension getting released, and in all such cases, these tensions contain a potential energy that is far, far greater than what any normal nuke generates. In other words, a nuke placed in the San Andreas fault even with extreme care to have maximum impact, wou…

The energy released by an earthquake of magnitude 8.0 on SA is approximately 6.31×10^16 joules. When converted to an equivalent in terms of TNT, this energy amounts to about 15,080 kilotons of TNT. (About the same as the Castle Bravo nuclear test) Now, to use such a weapon to cause a stress-relief earthquake, some factors need to come into play: Depth at which the device should be detonated to optimize stress relief…

>this energy amounts to about 15,080 kilotons of TNT. (About the same as the Castle Bravo nuclear test)

I thought of mentioning Castle Bravo or Tsar Bomba as contray examples of my general argument, but I simply stated "normal nuke". Neither Bravo or Tsar were at all normal nukes and especially by modern design standards that focus more on the multi-kiloton range and precision-guided multiple strikes against a given area target.

Even with those insanely giant old bombs, I wouldn't absolutely be sure that they'd achieve a massive tension release, even in a fault as tense as the San Andreas. Such a thing is likely just a bit too variable-prone to model effectively.

As for something like a Hiroshima type bomb doing it, bloody unlikely. The original post comment simply mentioned a bomb so I didn't want to stray into the biggest mega explosives of human military history.

Re: Seismologists suspect earthquake on San Andreas Fault is imminent

#68
post #9

I'm a non-Californian, so I'm not very familiar with the tectonics at play here. If there's an earthquake on this fault, how bad would it be? Would it trigger a tsunami? Would SF and LA be damaged? Could this cause "the big one" that gets mentioned occasionally? How bad would such a quake be?

The Parkfield region is very sparsely populated. A disruption on this segment of the San Andreas Fault, comparable to past similarly-sized events, would probably NOT have significant effects in major populated regions of either the San Francisco Bay Area (San Jose is 128 miles north) or Southern California (Santa Barbara, which is the northernmost extant of the SoCal conurbanation is 110 miles south). That's roughly 120 and 180 km respectively.

Earthquakes' effects are most strongly felt immediately around the epicenter, and diminishes with the square of the distance.

The San Andreas Fault, being a strike-slip fault (plates moving laterally against one another) and lying principally inland has very low tsunami risk. Tsunami are most associated with superthrust faults, in which one plate rides up over another, and energy is release with a strong vertical displacement, as with the 2011 Tohoku and 2004 Indian Ocean earthquakes.

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