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Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

journals.sagepub.com

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Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#91
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire comment is about HN, not the article. Do you have anything substantial or interesting to say about the study?

It's a valid comment, you don't need to be offended.

I'm not offended. I'm curious if this person actually has an interesting angle on the article or is just grinding an axe.

It's also against HN guidelines to comment about the site itself instead of something substantial that promotes discussion.

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#92
post #66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good Ecstasy is pure mdma and fillers not necessarily others drugs.

Ecstasy is a street name, and its meaning can vary a lot depending on where you are. Around Berlin you’ll find lots of people that call only MDMA pills ecstasy, while Emma is street MDMA, for example.

I can confirm that in my entire life in the US, no one has ever called pure MDMA "ecstasy". The latter has always referred to MDMA cut with something.

There may be different subcultures in the US that I don't know about, of course.

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#93
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which tbh isn't fair to the doctors and lawyer who also suffer from the disease Even if that's the case, I think framing it as "Engineer's Disease" is pretty critical for HN, which at times can become a literal orgy of it. Also, SV culture amplifies Engineer's Disease into a destructive force only rivaled by its counterpart in finance. Doctors and lawyers who suffer from something similar are far more limited in th…

Doctors and lawyers can become programmers far more easily than programmers can become doctors and lawyers though, so though the SV amplification is real, doctors and lawyers can also wreak havoc outside their discipline.

> Doctors and lawyers can become programmers far more easily than programmers can become doctors and lawyers though, so though the SV amplification is real, doctors and lawyers can also wreak havoc outside their discipline.

I think that's kind of missing the point. Also, I don't think many doctors are making the switch to engineering. Why would they? There are probably far more engineers becoming doctors than vice versa (though the total numbers in both directions are likely small).

The specific problem with Engineer's disease, is that engineers have the job of building things for others, and thus have the opportunity to force their half-baked ideas onto them. SV has amplified that and turned it into a monster, by elevating things like "disruption" into something like a moral imperative.

The counterpart in finance and the closely related managerialism rival it because those jobs involve control of others.

Doctors though? If they get arrogant about some other field, they usually just end up hurting themselves or a few others (like they learn to sail, get in over their heads, and sink their ship in a storm). They don't have a mechanism to do more damage.

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#94
post #92
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ecstasy is a street name, and its meaning can vary a lot depending on where you are. Around Berlin you’ll find lots of people that call only MDMA pills ecstasy, while Emma is street MDMA, for example.

I can confirm that in my entire life in the US, no one has ever called pure MDMA "ecstasy". The latter has always referred to MDMA cut with something. There may be different subcultures in the US that I don't know about, of course.

[deleted]

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#95
post #41

N of one but my friend (who always saw the world as very black and white) killed herself not long after doing Ayahuasca. I’m pretty sure it contributed to her death, she became an extreme fantasist about judgement and god, not a formalised religion but a personified fantasy with crazed rules and vengeances. It was not good.

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm not a medical practitioner but it sounds like the experience triggered a psychotic "break" in your friend? It's a sad but real possibility with psychedelics that more people should be aware of.

Also not medical but I experienced similar and it sounds like psychosis to me. Personally I had manic episode triggered by taking several doses of acid spread over a week or so preceded by shroom doses spread over prior weeks. This culminated in several nights of insomnia, paranoia and then psychosis - the religious stuff is relatable. I had intense apocalyptic beliefs and “visions” - sort of closed eye waking dream more so then an open eye hallucination. The black and white thing also highly relatable and I think it is splitting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)) - again not an expert.

Her suicide is very sad but I can relate. Rest in peace.

Personally it took me at least a month to feel functional again and then probably a year to start feeling better. Prior to that I struggled immensely with depression most of my life and abusing substances was my attempt to pull out of it, so to bottom out intensely like that feels extremely hopeless.

Once again giant disclaimer that I’m not authority, but I learned more about how psychedelics work from neuroscientists who research them and it was very illuminating. They are extremely potent in regards to neuroplasticity which seems like why they can be heaven or hell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoplastogen). My best take away from the scientists was to space trips out by several months similar to what you should do for MDMA. Frequently redosing keeps your brain activity from stabilizing. That’s not their advice or strong statements (they were avoiding advice-giving entirely), of course, just what I took away.

Years later and I have done a lot introspection and learning and I have taken psychedelics again. I can identify my own anxiety, paranoia, or bad patterned thoughts creeping up and talk myself back. I don’t attribute that traumatic experience or drug use in general to improving my circumstance and I sure as hell don’t recommend it but it does seem like my life going to total shit was a step I needed to take to get it back together. Therapy would’ve been easier.

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#96

You know when you see HN discussion on some subjects where you have significant background and it's hyper cringe? Psychology/neurology is one of those areas where the community's commentary is almost always extremely...factually challenged. Be very careful making health decisions based off of HN comments. Lots of people with strong agendas and weak subject matter knowledge. Also, be careful not to over-estimate your…

What's going to happen if we don't listen to your red-lettered life advice? Are we going to spontaneously combust?

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#97
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm not a medical practitioner but it sounds like the experience triggered a psychotic "break" in your friend? It's a sad but real possibility with psychedelics that more people should be aware of.

Also not medical but I experienced similar and it sounds like psychosis to me. Personally I had manic episode triggered by taking several doses of acid spread over a week or so preceded by shroom doses spread over prior weeks. This culminated in several nights of insomnia, paranoia and then psychosis - the religious stuff is relatable. I had intense apocalyptic beliefs and “visions” - sort of closed eye waking dream…

> so to bottom out intensely like that feels extremely hopeless.

Had a similar experience to you but took it in a different way. Came down out of the craziness and realized "hey, I'm still here, shit could be a lot worse"

But I don't get why you still came back to them after having a negative reaction. Seems like a good sign to stop

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#98
post #38

It’s pretty scary to me that so many people seemingly on whim are willing to upgrade their brain firmware. I often hear stuff like “and then my whole view on reality changed”. Unless there’s an easy way to upload the previous “factory image” so to speak, it feels pretty risky to experiment with that.

100%. Ask any one of these people to quantify how their view on reality changed and it'll be vague transcendentalist talking points and hand waving around things like something something spiritualism, something something deeper connection with nature, something something cosmic holographic kaleidoscopic reality.

On par with new age crystal healing and chakra points.

Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use

#100
post #38

It’s pretty scary to me that so many people seemingly on whim are willing to upgrade their brain firmware. I often hear stuff like “and then my whole view on reality changed”. Unless there’s an easy way to upload the previous “factory image” so to speak, it feels pretty risky to experiment with that.

100%. Ask any one of these people to quantify how their view on reality changed and it'll be vague transcendentalist talking points and hand waving around things like something something spiritualism, something something deeper connection with nature, something something cosmic holographic kaleidoscopic reality. On par with new age crystal healing and chakra points.

I'm an extreme materialist, I don't believe in gods or spirits or anything of the sort. I don't even believe in the magic some people call "free will".

I first tried LSD about 10 years ago and have taken various forms of psychedelics once or twice a year since. Some of them were, without a doubt, the most profound experiences of my life. You're right about the vague transcendentalist nonsense. The problem is there are no words to describe it adequately.

Despite only having pleasant experiences myself, I would never encourage any friend or stranger to try them. That is something only they can decide with their own research and risk appetite. There are absolutely serious potential consequences.

I think the worst consequence for me is that I have started to like weird music like psytrance even when sober.

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