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Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

bbc.com

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Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#21

Post by southerntofu »

ibaikov wrote: post #14

> Signed by "The Occupiers", the notice ... claimed any attempt to enter the premises without their permission was a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence or fine. This is insane that squatting is not a criminal offense and that they can even argue that forceful eviction by the owner would be a criminal offense

It is by no means insane, especially if you consider the broader legal status. It's illegal to break into places, and it's illegal to occupy people's homes. What is called squatting refers to occupying empty/abandoned places, and it would be insane to make that a criminal offense.

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#22

Post by prepend »

southerntofu wrote: post #21
ibaikov wrote: post #14

> Signed by "The Occupiers", the notice ... claimed any attempt to enter the premises without their permission was a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence or fine. This is insane that squatting is not a criminal offense and that they can even argue that forceful eviction by the owner would be a criminal offense

It is by no means insane, especially if you consider the broader legal status. It's illegal to break into places, and it's illegal to occupy people's homes. What is called squatting refers to occupying empty/abandoned places, and it would be insane to make that a criminal offense.

Trespassing is a criminal offense, right?

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#23

Post by bayindirh »

southerntofu wrote: post #21
ibaikov wrote: post #14

> Signed by "The Occupiers", the notice ... claimed any attempt to enter the premises without their permission was a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence or fine. This is insane that squatting is not a criminal offense and that they can even argue that forceful eviction by the owner would be a criminal offense

It is by no means insane, especially if you consider the broader legal status. It's illegal to break into places, and it's illegal to occupy people's homes. What is called squatting refers to occupying empty/abandoned places, and it would be insane to make that a criminal offense.

You mean that if I have a place and leave it empty for any reason, then it can be squatted, and this is perfectly legal?

If yes, this is unbelievable and insane, yes.

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#24

Post by mansion7 »

southerntofu wrote: post #21
ibaikov wrote: post #14

> Signed by "The Occupiers", the notice ... claimed any attempt to enter the premises without their permission was a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence or fine. This is insane that squatting is not a criminal offense and that they can even argue that forceful eviction by the owner would be a criminal offense

It is by no means insane, especially if you consider the broader legal status. It's illegal to break into places, and it's illegal to occupy people's homes. What is called squatting refers to occupying empty/abandoned places, and it would be insane to make that a criminal offense.

Including your empty guestroom, presumably? After all, no one's using it. Or is it only other people who have to deal with criminal invaders?

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#25

Post by prepend »

notatoad wrote: post #8
prepend wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The property owner pays taxes, right? So the mechanism now is that investors don’t like to pay taxes and expenses without income to offset. I don’t know if the UK has eminent domain, but in the US the city can use eminent domain to purchase and do something. But in this case, I think if anyone wanted that property, they would purchase it. So it’s a bit of a tough problem to fix by government intervention. And Gordon…

>The property owner pays taxes, right? My understanding is that they do not, for a listed building that is vacant.

That seems odd as in the UK property taxes are based on ownership, not vacancy. What makes you think vacant properties aren’t subject to taxes?

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#26

Post by KineticLensman »

bayindirh wrote: post #23
southerntofu wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is by no means insane, especially if you consider the broader legal status. It's illegal to break into places, and it's illegal to occupy people's homes. What is called squatting refers to occupying empty/abandoned places, and it would be insane to make that a criminal offense.

You mean that if I have a place and leave it empty for any reason, then it can be squatted, and this is perfectly legal? If yes, this is unbelievable and insane, yes.

IIUC, a UK place of residence cannot be squatted but a business can. In either case, damage can be prosecuted

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#27

Post by southerntofu »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #15
lupire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So when they finally find a buyer or someone to take the lease, the squatters will peacefully move out?

You're talking about wildly different situations. If the owners wanted to lease the place for a fair price, it would never be empty long enough to be squatted. Most squatters are actually looking to rent a place but can't afford it because of bloodsucking landowners letting apartments to rot empty to drive the prices up by creating artificial scarcity in the housing market.

As for finding new speculators to buy the place, that's also complicated. I mean, mostly because selling an occupied place will drive its value down and certain shark-like speculators specialize in buying occupied homes for pennies to make a huge margin. But there are other factors.

But more than anything, squatters are people. People who need a home. They can be discussed/reasoned/bargained with. In the worst case, a civil suit will get them evicted after some time even if they'd not like to move out.

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#28

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #13
notatoad wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The property owner pays taxes, right? My understanding is that they do not, for a listed building that is vacant.

Well that's an easy fix right there. In the US you pay property taxes regardless.

Not exactly. I mean, in the US, as far as I know in all/most jurisdictions you don't get a different tax rate depending on whether the property is vacant or not. But in many places you can get a sizable property tax deduction for historic designated properties, sometimes equal to 100% of the value of the structure. Note that in the UK "listed building" means the property is registered as being historically significant, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_building.

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#29

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

prepend wrote: post #25
notatoad wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The property owner pays taxes, right? My understanding is that they do not, for a listed building that is vacant.

That seems odd as in the UK property taxes are based on ownership, not vacancy. What makes you think vacant properties aren’t subject to taxes?

The exemption for vacant buildings only applies to listed buildings in the UK. E.g. https://www.clearway.co.uk/news/does-a-landlord-have-to-pay-... :

> If your commercial property belongs to one or more of the following categories, you’ll be eligible for an extended period of relief for business rates, provided that your property is fully empty and not in use:

...

> If your building is a listed building, you will only begin paying business rates once the property is occupied once again

Re: Squatters take over Gordon Ramsay's London pub

#30

Post by southerntofu »

mansion7 wrote: post #24
southerntofu wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is by no means insane, especially if you consider the broader legal status. It's illegal to break into places, and it's illegal to occupy people's homes. What is called squatting refers to occupying empty/abandoned places, and it would be insane to make that a criminal offense.

Including your empty guestroom, presumably? After all, no one's using it. Or is it only other people who have to deal with criminal invaders?

Assuming you are commenting in good faith, no of course not your empty bedroom. A person's residence is protected by law in most countries, and this has nothing to do with the legal status of squatting.

Occupying part of someone's residence while they are there, or while they are away is strongly illegal and criminal, a violation of the residence. Nothing to do with squatting: this practice of stealing people's homes does not exist (or very anecdotally) and is dealt with by the police without trial in every country.

You can for example study the mediatic cases brought forward by the french far-right media (BFM TV / CNEWS) such as the Maryvonne case or the Roland case: they have not been acted upon by the police because they were abandoned houses that were not the residence of the owners despite what they claimed in the media.

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