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350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

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Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#51

Post by cloverich »

agentultra wrote: post #45

Everyone is always concerned about scale. But I sometimes wonder if we need to scale down. Are cargo ships full of essential goods or disposable items that will more likely than not enter a landfill without seeing any use at all? We’re really good at over producing items and goods that we don’t need or use. It’s interesting to see businesses try things like this. It might not be efficient or affordable now. But someo…

This is where carbon tax helps. Having to pay the true cost of goods helps everyone make better decisions. Maybe, hopefully, it also pushes the needle towards higher quality, more essential items and hence less waste.

Yet, "make everything more expensive" is a challenging position to make progress on.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#52

Post by evomassiny »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32

This is not a method by which carbon emissions can be significantly reduced. It is essentially a marketing ploy to provide an option for virtue signaling consumers to show that they get their luxury chocolates and wine by sailboat. I was going to start out this comment by saying "I don't mean to dump on well-intentioned entrepreneurs", but in all honesty I think I might. That is, at this point, anything that doesn't…

Could you elaborate on why this is not a method by which carbon emissions can be significantly reduced ?

This is only the second boat of a small company, they most likely don't have the ressources to get a bigger one. At this scale, the only way to make money is to move luxury products.

IMO it's a good start.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#54

Post by toomuchtodo »

Retric wrote: post #49
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32

This is not a method by which carbon emissions can be significantly reduced. It is essentially a marketing ploy to provide an option for virtue signaling consumers to show that they get their luxury chocolates and wine by sailboat. I was going to start out this comment by saying "I don't mean to dump on well-intentioned entrepreneurs", but in all honesty I think I might. That is, at this point, anything that doesn't…

This is basically pointless, but the economics of modern sailing ships can get closer than you might think. Historic sailing ships where 10x this size and carried 8,000 tons of cargo at close to the speed of slow steaming shipping. That’s only 1/15th of a Panamax ship, but 8,000 tons isn’t some inherent limit on sails it’s what you got from the technology of the time aka wood. Modern weather forcasts, better hulls, m…

Also, currently about half of marine cargo is moving fuel around the world. As that volume decreases (energy transition), along with deglobalization also decreasing marine shipments, total volume potential for sailing is much more reasonable.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#55

Post by danielharan »

prmoustache wrote: post #35

It would make more sense to roast the cacao and make the fine chocolates in the countries where cacao is harvested if you ask me.

The chocolate has to be shipped cool, requiring more energy. That said: more and more producing countries are doing initial processing (roasting and grinding into liquor), and derivatives (powder and butter).

Processing cacao in North America means I have to pay to get rid of shell which could be brought back to farms. Hopefully one day I can buy good liquor.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#56

Post by [deleted] »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32

This is not a method by which carbon emissions can be significantly reduced. It is essentially a marketing ploy to provide an option for virtue signaling consumers to show that they get their luxury chocolates and wine by sailboat. I was going to start out this comment by saying "I don't mean to dump on well-intentioned entrepreneurs", but in all honesty I think I might. That is, at this point, anything that doesn't…

[deleted]

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#58

Post by zer00eyz »

jylam wrote: post #42

"Everything from Grain de Sail brand fine chocolates and organic coffee to cosmetic products, wine, and French fashion house luxury goods were on board." So luxury stuff that no one really needs to get from the other side of the world. There is nothing environmentally friendly about useless stuff shipped from a country 10.000km away. Cocoa and coffee obviously doesn't grow in France, so it already came for somewhere…

You think luxury goods are the problem?

Theres 8 billion of us... Most of the population eats based on imports.

China, a billion people, only produces 60 percent of its own food. Africa, large portions of the Middle East survive on imported grain. Hell what started out as aid to Nigeria is now a delicacy and part of the culture: stock fish. An African nation identifies part of its culture with a Norwegian export.

This isnt a "rich" problem the system is fucked from tip to tail. EVERYTHING needs to change, and we can do that now and figure out a way that is "fair" or we can just wait till it's fucked, and then famine and war solve the problem.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#59

Post by toast0 »

hagbard_c wrote: post #33
Gare wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use wind power to produce methane, then use methane to power huge container ships. Sailing by proxy.

You'll be emitting nitrous oxides when burning that methane. Use wind to produce hydrogen, use that in fuel cells. Electric propulsion units are already in use, what remains to be solved is the megawatt-sized fuel cells needed for this application at a price which makes the whole scheme feasible.

NOx is addressable through diesel exhaust fluid (urea) and catalysts; maybe not elimination, but at least significant reduction. Methane is easier to store and transport than hydrogen, and there's potential for refitting existing engines to run from cng/lng (although I think purpose built cng powered devices usually start from a gasoline engine design and freight vehicles usually have a diesel engine).

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#60

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

dylan604 wrote: post #25
zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There could be a convoy of drone ships, each with automated defensive system. The convoy would be patrolled by smaller/faster manned ships with security personnel looking out for pirates

Oh, okay. So, instead of crewing the ship, you're crewing multiple ships to go along with the unmanned ship? The logic with some just eludes me

You could probably do a smaller crew than if you had to man all the cargo ships. I'm imagining like an ocean train
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