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350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

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Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#41

Post by brabel »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32

This is not a method by which carbon emissions can be significantly reduced. It is essentially a marketing ploy to provide an option for virtue signaling consumers to show that they get their luxury chocolates and wine by sailboat. I was going to start out this comment by saying "I don't mean to dump on well-intentioned entrepreneurs", but in all honesty I think I might. That is, at this point, anything that doesn't…

The rich are responsible for a disproportionate amount of emissions. They fly more (often ridiculously more with their private jets), buy more, live in houses that take more energy than whole suburbs. If it becomes taboo for them to spend their fortunes on things that have high emissions and they're pressured to use this sort of innovative solution because of that, it may actually make a big difference.

Also, what's your alternative? Shouldn't anyone do anything just because in the grand scheme of things, it won't make a dent?

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#42

Post by jylam »

"Everything from Grain de Sail brand fine chocolates and organic coffee to cosmetic products, wine, and French fashion house luxury goods were on board."

So luxury stuff that no one really needs to get from the other side of the world. There is nothing environmentally friendly about useless stuff shipped from a country 10.000km away. Cocoa and coffee obviously doesn't grow in France, so it already came for somewhere else very far away. Cosmetic products are either a scam or available locally, those are chemicals or plants that don't grow in France.

“We must change our mindset to products that last longer and generate less pressure on the environment.” Yes, so no luxury goods across the oceans. More local stuff.

That's textbook greenwashing. (full disclosure, I'm French, never seen a cocoa or coffee or cosmetic plant grow here)

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#43

Post by durundal »

azernik wrote: post #38
hagbard_c wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be emitting nitrous oxides when burning that methane. Use wind to produce hydrogen, use that in fuel cells. Electric propulsion units are already in use, what remains to be solved is the megawatt-sized fuel cells needed for this application at a price which makes the whole scheme feasible.

How are you emitting nitrous oxides from a synthetically produced (ie very pure) fuel that contains no nitrogen?

You’re burning it in air which has lots of nitrogen.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#44

Post by fbdab103 »

datameta wrote: post #36
dylan604 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, okay. So, instead of crewing the ship, you're crewing multiple ships to go along with the unmanned ship? The logic with some just eludes me

Ok but what if we dig deeper. What does an autonomous ship afford? The space and weight savings of having no human habitation (just mechanic/engineer access for equipment maintenance at dock) would be rather large. No need to maintain human-comfortable conditions, bring water and food for the voyage, no recreational areas, quarters, corridors, etc. In fact, the entire ship can be sealed and resealed at port so that i…

Cargo ships are so stupidly big that crew accommodations are a rounding error in the volume. Much bigger concerns are equipment breaking down in the middle of the ocean without anyone able to affect repairs.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#45

Post by agentultra »

Everyone is always concerned about scale.

But I sometimes wonder if we need to scale down. Are cargo ships full of essential goods or disposable items that will more likely than not enter a landfill without seeing any use at all? We’re really good at over producing items and goods that we don’t need or use.

It’s interesting to see businesses try things like this. It might not be efficient or affordable now. But someone had to break ground and move the needle somewhere.

There’s an interesting story in a similar vein behind the publishing of the card game, Earthborne Rangers. They wanted to print the game so that it was fully compostable. Save for the staples in the rulebook they succeeded despite industry veterans telling them it would be too expensive and not work. I’m glad they did it. I hope others will also try it.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#46

Post by MostlyStable »

stefan_ wrote: post #39
chongli wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you secure them? Pirates have already begun to be a huge problem in particular political/economic hot spots around the world. Autonomous drone sailboats would be ripe plums just waiting to be plucked. I think one of the biggest issues is that these drones could ostensibly be jammed from beyond visual range and then disabled and captured during jamming. This would make it very difficult to detect the perpetr…

I suppose there is no reason to make an autonomous cargo ship accessible to humans.

If you they have access to it for hours-to-days, then there is no practical way to keep people out, assuming they care enough to try. Even if they have to cut through the hull, there's enough time to do it on trans-oceanic voyage.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#48

Post by konschubert »

tocs3 wrote: post #2

I have wondered a lot bout using sail for shipping. If you are the shipper and you enjoy he sailing it seems like it could be a good idea. Just a way to pay for a lifestyle not a way to make boatloads of money. It would not make much of a dent in traditions shipping but more of a way to live a nice life.

You have to beat 4K for a shipping container from Asia to the US.

No way.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#49

Post by Retric »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32

This is not a method by which carbon emissions can be significantly reduced. It is essentially a marketing ploy to provide an option for virtue signaling consumers to show that they get their luxury chocolates and wine by sailboat. I was going to start out this comment by saying "I don't mean to dump on well-intentioned entrepreneurs", but in all honesty I think I might. That is, at this point, anything that doesn't…

This is basically pointless, but the economics of modern sailing ships can get closer than you might think. Historic sailing ships where 10x this size and carried 8,000 tons of cargo at close to the speed of slow steaming shipping. That’s only 1/15th of a Panamax ship, but 8,000 tons isn’t some inherent limit on sails it’s what you got from the technology of the time aka wood.

Modern weather forcasts, better hulls, more automation, and the economics get surprisingly close. So sure, today it’s pointless but PV looked like a dumb investment for decades before suddenly taking over the world.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#50

Post by Gare »

hagbard_c wrote: post #33
Gare wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use wind power to produce methane, then use methane to power huge container ships. Sailing by proxy.

You'll be emitting nitrous oxides when burning that methane. Use wind to produce hydrogen, use that in fuel cells. Electric propulsion units are already in use, what remains to be solved is the megawatt-sized fuel cells needed for this application at a price which makes the whole scheme feasible.

Long term, I agree. But we already have methane and methanol powered huge container ships. Much better than burning bunker fuel.
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