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China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

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Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#101

Post by toasterlovin »

bobthepanda wrote: post #94
toasterlovin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO onshoring is mostly happening at this point because of tariffs. The supply chain crisis is over and has been for a while at this point, but everything coming from China is still 25% more expensive than it used to be.

over =/= could never happen again. and it doesn't even have to be the exact same scenario. right now the panama is at lower capacity due to droughts and the red sea leading to the suez is a conflict zone.

Yeah, but the problem is that your competitors dictate what you have to do. If they keep their supply chain in Asia because it gives them a significant price advantage, then you're overpriced. For on-shoring to work, you need to be able to survive such a structural disadvantage in the short-term AND the advantage you realize when outlier events happen has to outweigh the structural disadvantage.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#102

Post by kelipso »

Qwertious wrote: post #83
causi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they could do a long range bombardment but then there's nothing left to take. This is irrelevant. Not because you're wrong, but because you're thinking of terms of what a rational, reasonable person would do. Taking Taiwan has about as much to do with helping China as the Iraq War had to do with avenging 9/11: nothing whatsoever. If China attacks Taiwan it will be for the sole reason that Xi Jinping has and is u…

Taking Taiwan would be useful as a naval base. And to deny the US the ability to blockade the pacific ocean.

Seriously. There's a reason US has military bases on islands down the whole east coast of China.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#103

Post by bayindirh »

spookie wrote: post #73
bayindirh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RockChip's ARM SoC's are quite fast actually. I run a couple of OrangePi 5Bs which work quite nicely. Mind you these are 4+4 bigLITTLE systems with 35 degrees C idle without any tuning and passive cooling. Huawei is also quite improved on hardware reliability and design department in the last years, so there's no need for concern for them. They still need a Infiniband equivalent network layer for HPC, though.

Their media capabilities are quite meh however

Let’s take a look:

    RK3588S:
    - 8K60P output over HDMI 2.1
    - OpenGL ES 3.2, OpenCL 2.2, Vulkan 1.2
    - 6 TOPS AI accelerator with INT4/8/16 support
    - Real time H265/H264 encoding up to 8K30P, parallel encoding with less resolution, plus decodes tons of format up to 8K, plus JPEG decoder.
Details are at https://www.cnx-software.com/pdf/Rockchip%C2%A0RK3588%C2%A0D...

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#104

Post by tuetuopay »

sinxccc wrote: post #34
hashtag-til wrote: post #10

What are they going to use? RISC-V?

I don't have access behind the paywall. But from the title, if it is only telecom carriers devices, basically RISC-V and ARM chips. Telecom giants like Huawei and ZTE use their own network processor on data plane for a long time, replacing control plane CPU (usually x86 or ARM) is not a big task. Smaller companies who relies on Broadcom solution may have a tough time, but 3 years to find a replacement and finish adap…

I think you’re underestimating the CPUs in such telco devices. Even datacenter grade equipment (much easier on the control plane than telco or backbone) come with Xeon chips. Not the best ones, but still full blown server CPUs with heaps of RAM.

This is not Arm or risc-v territory (yet), perhaps Ampere devices. However this is approachable by Loongsoon an I’d bet it’s the path they’ll take.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#105

Post by nsteel »

tuetuopay wrote: post #104
sinxccc wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have access behind the paywall. But from the title, if it is only telecom carriers devices, basically RISC-V and ARM chips. Telecom giants like Huawei and ZTE use their own network processor on data plane for a long time, replacing control plane CPU (usually x86 or ARM) is not a big task. Smaller companies who relies on Broadcom solution may have a tough time, but 3 years to find a replacement and finish adap…

I think you’re underestimating the CPUs in such telco devices. Even datacenter grade equipment (much easier on the control plane than telco or backbone) come with Xeon chips. Not the best ones, but still full blown server CPUs with heaps of RAM. This is not Arm or risc-v territory (yet), perhaps Ampere devices. However this is approachable by Loongsoon an I’d bet it’s the path they’ll take.

I've always understood it that datacentre equipment comes with beefier control plane processors then telco equipment. And that's for three main reasons. Firstly, the data planes themselves are less powerful and have to offload more to the CPU. Secondly, the thermal env of telco will cook a Xeon. Thirdly, SDN and extensible Linux-based software is more popular in datacente, compared to mostly proprietary telco software where the CPU has a fixed house-keeping role. Cavium's arm/mips processors were popular for telco control plane.

It's quite possible my viewpoint is outdated.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#106

Post by Simulacra »

Qwertious wrote: post #83
causi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they could do a long range bombardment but then there's nothing left to take. This is irrelevant. Not because you're wrong, but because you're thinking of terms of what a rational, reasonable person would do. Taking Taiwan has about as much to do with helping China as the Iraq War had to do with avenging 9/11: nothing whatsoever. If China attacks Taiwan it will be for the sole reason that Xi Jinping has and is u…

Taking Taiwan would be useful as a naval base. And to deny the US the ability to blockade the pacific ocean.

Taiwan is the only thing essentially protecting Japan.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#107

Post by zeroCalories »

floxy wrote: post #92
zeroCalories wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is in a weird place that is hard to predict. They have some troubling economic and demographic problems as you said, but also have built up strong tech and manufacturing capabilities. We could easily see China continue to grow in power, even if the middle class continues to be poor.

Seems like they are doing OK on the percentage of people who own their homes front: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_owne...

Home ownership is a meme. Congratulations, you're sitting next to other prosperous countries like Cuba.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#108

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #7
shortsunblack wrote: post #2

What use are chip factories in the United States when you cannot sell them to the largest market of chips that only will become even more larger as Chinese middle class and their consumption grows?

The theory is that the Chinese middle class has already peaked given the population decline, economic woes, and shrinking growth of exports to the West. As but one signal, the recent dumping of Chinese EVs has less to do with industrial superiority and more to do with their own shrinking domestic demand. The Chinese market is saturated and consumer demand has slowed. India's growth is predicted to top China's before…

[deleted]

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#109

Post by go88faxme »

0x00_NULL wrote: post #53
Tiktaalik wrote: post #37

Seems like a signal that they see the trade consequences of invading Taiwan, and they're going to put things in motion such that they'll be prepared to be able to handle them.

That’s a hilarious directive since their homegrown CPU is 900 MHz. They are on something like a 30nm die. There is just no way they can transition to those chips in modern devices. This sounds like exactly the sort of order that would come from Xi. He’s living in his information bubble and is excited to go to war.

Do checkout Dxomark which smartphone has best camera. Do checkout how well Kunlun vs Gorrilla best. Do check the number of Mate 60 (hint iPhone sales dropped 20%). And maybe also check the cpu size. They have already rumours seeing actual 2-3nm in used in Huawei engineering sample unit. Even AI GPUs ES sample now floating if you have connections to get it (definitely better than Intel Arcs). I think you truly live in Joe info bubble. I have friends directly in Chinese semicon. You will see 4-5 years down the road, TSMC become irrelevant. Did you know now 90% worldwide mid tier and low tier chip dominated by Chinese made? Used to be TI and EU foundry during Obama time. You can do the research. Helps a lot if you are strong in read Chinese simplified characters sources.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#110

Post by go88faxme »

nyokodo wrote: post #69
tromp wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're down to 7nm albeit with low yield and questionable legalities [1]. [1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3256321/chinese-c...

> questionable legalities "Questionable" is an interesting euphemism for massive IP theft over many years.

If you read Sun Tzu, theft of info is warranted and morally right to do so. Read the spycraft section of Sun Tzu. US did the same with Sputnik. They path and legitimize the act decades ago.
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