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China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

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Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#91

Post by scrubs »

lupusreal wrote: post #39
dehrmann wrote: post #28

In a surprise to no one. This is just tit for tat in the Trump-Biden trade war with China.

China initiated the "trade war" years before any American politician acknowledged it.

Agree. You'd have to be a bit stupid not to see the early embrace of China was to collect, learn, and participate with the west to only later excise control then exceed and dominate. Here i want to chastise us (the west) for our money, money, money focus and quarter to quarter focus.

China, and I think somewhat to their credit, learned tons from the stupidity of Russians and were never going to be so thoroughly broken. And it's understandable; that's what we'd do. Nonetheless, China isn't so powerful as to dictate terms.

It seems like China's risk calculation was suffer short term money loss and foreign products and services now, to make own and control the market access and structure later making back the money.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#92

Post by floxy »

zeroCalories wrote: post #13
echelon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is that the Chinese middle class has already peaked given the population decline, economic woes, and shrinking growth of exports to the West. As but one signal, the recent dumping of Chinese EVs has less to do with industrial superiority and more to do with their own shrinking domestic demand. The Chinese market is saturated and consumer demand has slowed. India's growth is predicted to top China's before…

China is in a weird place that is hard to predict. They have some troubling economic and demographic problems as you said, but also have built up strong tech and manufacturing capabilities. We could easily see China continue to grow in power, even if the middle class continues to be poor.

Seems like they are doing OK on the percentage of people who own their homes front:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_owne...

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#93

Post by scrubs »

zeroCalories wrote: post #13
echelon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is that the Chinese middle class has already peaked given the population decline, economic woes, and shrinking growth of exports to the West. As but one signal, the recent dumping of Chinese EVs has less to do with industrial superiority and more to do with their own shrinking domestic demand. The Chinese market is saturated and consumer demand has slowed. India's growth is predicted to top China's before…

China is in a weird place that is hard to predict. They have some troubling economic and demographic problems as you said, but also have built up strong tech and manufacturing capabilities. We could easily see China continue to grow in power, even if the middle class continues to be poor.

There was a recent bloomberg article titled (from memory):

the fed has a problem. There are two US economies but only one rate.

The 95 v 5% split in the US with the middle class worse and worse is a problem. It'll be the same for China except that Chinese politicians are way more attuned to social cohesion compared to the west.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#94

Post by bobthepanda »

toasterlovin wrote: post #57
bobthepanda wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Onshoring is mostly happening because the disruption due to factory/port COVID lockdowns in China, and then all the issues with ports and canals domestically, made it quite clear that the long distance transpacific supply chain cannot be the only option. At least with Mexico and Canada there are dozens of land crossings that can be diverted to. And if you cannot sell for six months due to supply issues but your compe…

IMO onshoring is mostly happening at this point because of tariffs. The supply chain crisis is over and has been for a while at this point, but everything coming from China is still 25% more expensive than it used to be.

over =/= could never happen again. and it doesn't even have to be the exact same scenario.

right now the panama is at lower capacity due to droughts and the red sea leading to the suez is a conflict zone.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#95

Post by kkzz99 »

nyokodo wrote: post #69
tromp wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're down to 7nm albeit with low yield and questionable legalities [1]. [1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3256321/chinese-c...

> questionable legalities "Questionable" is an interesting euphemism for massive IP theft over many years.

Doing technology transfers and then crying about it is really bad manners.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#96

Post by kkzz99 »

roamerz wrote: post #43
dehrmann wrote: post #28

In a surprise to no one. This is just tit for tat in the Trump-Biden trade war with China.

>>This is just tit for tat in the Trump-Biden trade war with China Or maybe something more strategic as they ramp up hostilities With Taiwan.

China is fine with the status quo, who isn't fine with that is the US.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#97

Post by kkzz99 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #48
swed420 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's economy seems to be doing just fine https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/04/10/chinas-unf...

This week's cover of The Economist : https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2024/04/04/thi... > This week we had one worldwide cover. China’s famously industrious workforce is shrinking, its property boom has ended and the system of free trade that helped it grow rich is disintegrating. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/04/04/xi-jinpings-mis...

Good thing The Economist is so reliable in its reporting about China.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#98

Post by kkzz99 »

a_random_canuck wrote: post #52
Havoc wrote: post #5

I really just hope consumers will have access to both sides. I know people freak out about hardware backdoors but some of the cheap tech coming out of China sure is cool

People “freak out” for good reason. People need to understand just how insidious the communist party’s methods are.

Do you have any idea about the US's methods? You may want to pick up a history book to see how insidious the American methods are.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#99

Post by kkzz99 »

vouwfietsman wrote: post #85
causi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a "so what" situation. If China's economy is severed from the rest of the world's, competitors can't take its market share. Being five or even ten years behind on chips is irrelevant when your consumers can't go elsewhere. What did people use their smartphones for ten years ago? Recording themselves and watching cat videos. What do they do now? You don't need 2nm chips to do anything except take market shar…

yes but AI, simulations and supercomputer warfare

China already has competing AI products that are used domestically.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#100

Post by osnium123 »

It seems that AMD and Intel are continuing to lose market share between China restrictions and cloud providers designing their own silicon. At some point, you will have a Boeing/Mc Donald Douglas situation where the US government will force AMD to acquire Intel so that both entities can survive.
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