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I Lost Faith in Kagi

d-shoot.net

491–500 of 639 posts

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#491
post #442

I really don't understand why people are so upset about the T-shirts. Like in the grand scheme of things, who cares? If I invested money (I didn't) in Kagi, I would expect some of that money to be spent on marketing. Marketers often do experiments, some of which go well, and others that don't. Only time tells. This take feels more like being upset about one individual's (Vlad) personal opinions about privacy and poli…

Simply put it's bikeshedding. t-shirts are something that people think they can understand, so they speak most at length about it compared to the other things Kagi is doing.

I do not believe this is a good example of bikeshedding. They made what I would consider a pretty long post and announcement about shirts but there is a fairly sizeable paying user base that worry its a distraction. I agree that some of the specific nitpicks are probably unfair but we love the products but see tshirts as a repeated problem of maybe doing too much. We are all armchairing the problem though and its up to Vlad to do his own thing.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm astonished there are only that many.

How? For the vast, vast majority of people, paying for search is insane. And that includes the people who pay for other services.

Judging from how often Kagi comes up here (HN), I actually thought they were far bigger than they are.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#493

I really don't understand why people are so upset about the T-shirts. Like in the grand scheme of things, who cares? If I invested money (I didn't) in Kagi, I would expect some of that money to be spent on marketing. Marketers often do experiments, some of which go well, and others that don't. Only time tells. This take feels more like being upset about one individual's (Vlad) personal opinions about privacy and poli…

> This take feels more like being upset about one individual's (Vlad) personal opinions about privacy and politics. But in my opinion, it fails to realize that assigning one person's views to an entire organization is a fallacy. Even if they are the leader. And Vlad didn't even say anything that crazy from a political perspective. "News should not only be about politics" is super reasonable, and I found myself agreei…

All news is political.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked your AI if there was "any discussion of privacy", and it said no. That's clearly incorrect, and you've now changed the goalpost massively to disagreement personally with that discussion. Here, I asked Claude about it, since you like that approach. > A CEO of a search engine states "people who really need anonymity are very rare. probably less than a 100 in the entire world". Is this concerning from a privac…

I see our main disagreement being rooted in your use of the phrase "for everyone". It disregards the fact "rare" means exactly, 'some people'. I do not read the attitude at Kagi to be downplaying the importance of privacy. To me it seems like a mature realization of the limits of online life. Anonymity is very expensive. Try to buy something online if you doubt it. I disagree with your interpretation of Vlad's positi…

> ps, I 100% could prompt Claude to rebut every sentence in your post

Yes. That should give you pause, and is why I included the above.

It will happily confirm your priors for you, even incorrectly. Like when it told you the article didn’t say anything about privacy.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#495
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We reminisce about Usenet as this cesspool of human interaction, while everybody today is a pre-offended sociopath with an audience. I miss talking with the average idiot from the 2000s internet.

Not a Usenet user, still an average idiot with an open inbox and a love for talking with random people. If you miss those days ping me via email, I’m always happy to meet new people.

Fuck it, why not, you might be able to help me with something. I'll send you an email.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk about "bad faith argument," because even if Kagi doesn't technically own the thing, they literally said "we basically ended up owning a merch production operation end-to-end."

I know I'm being pedantic but there is a difference between a factory and a fulfillment service. When I read "they own a T-shirt factory" I interpret it as a place where T-shirts are made which is a much bigger cost than renting a warehouse for fulfillment.

owning a merch production operation end-to-end is not owning a fulfillment service. it says production operation end to end. read that again. do you know what "production" means?

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The t-shirts are weird and made me lose a lot of faith in their org. The way I look at it is instead of making their products better, they flushed a bunch of money down the drain for t-shirts and its offensive to paying customers who are paying because they enjoy the product and want it to become better, they don't want a t-shirt. Kagi founder here and I want to clarify the train of thoughts around Kagi printing an…

Very interesting! Quick (but difficult) question: do you foresee there arising a reasonably reliable way to filter out the coming wave of ai spam? I’m told that half of Twitter is bots talking to each other at this point, and I’m sure this is coming to other media as well. Eg, massive, massive waves of content marketing, sock puppets, etc. Is there reason to be optimistic that you or other actors will be able to sift…

Yes, significant part of our effort is to build technology that detects LLM spam. We have a working model that detects LLM generated text with 90% accuracy currently. The plan is to integrate in search results and make available as an API.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#498

I am increasingly convinced that the successor/replacement to Google will not be a more clever, AI-powered search engine, but a hyper-curated collection of links, selected by people who understand what good content is. Sort of like Yahoo in the pre-Google days. I think this is only going to become more apparent once AI-generated content takes over the web.

This assumes the breadth of "things I will ever want to search in the future" is contained in whatever these "people" consider to be useful knowledge. Should we create such a group and have them thoughtfully consider every present and past field of knowledge, language, place on earth, political/religious viewpoint, and so on.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm being pedantic but there is a difference between a factory and a fulfillment service. When I read "they own a T-shirt factory" I interpret it as a place where T-shirts are made which is a much bigger cost than renting a warehouse for fulfillment.

owning a merch production operation end-to-end is not owning a fulfillment service. it says production operation end to end. read that again. do you know what "production" means?

But they don't own a production operation end to end. They partnered with a print shop, imported the shirts from Serbia, rented space in a warehouse, built a backend service to track it all.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#500
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orion is based on WebKit, not on Chromium. The Mac version of DuckDuckGo's browser is based on WebKit too.

You're right, it doesn't negate the question though.

On iOS it is not simple to switch to other search engines on Safari that's not in their list: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38937619

The thing is they can't control the stability of alternative methods on Safari. It's up to Apple.

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