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H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

theregister.com

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Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#201

Post by tivert »

sys_64738 wrote: post #192
tivert wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> H1-B visas are non-immigrant visas so anybody coming in on one knows it's finite then they need to leave after the fact (assuming they don't change status). So what? I don't see how that's relevant to the question, unless you're being unreasonably legalistic. Also, I've known only one person in my career who came to the US on temporary visa who intended to leave. Everyone else's ultimate goal was a green card.

I know plenty who have left after a few years. Maybe you don't know many people on non-immigrant visas.

I know quite a few, and there was a time where almost everyone I interacted with was an immigrant with an H1-B or OPT, though I think all of them did go to school in the US and got hired as full-time employees through the same process Americans would go through.

I also know immigrants who left after a few years, but only one had planned/wanted to do so from the start (and that's just because he didn't want to bother the uncertainty of trying for an H1-B).

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#202

Post by CPLX »

tivert wrote: post #198
CPLX wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your plan is that it essentially grants the ability to determine which people get to immigrate to the admissions committee of private colleges. If you propose that you have to defend it on policy grounds. I don’t like that idea at all, that decision is the function of a democratically elected government.

> The problem with your plan is that it essentially grants the ability to determine which people get to immigrate to the admissions committee of private colleges. Who said anything about "admissions committee of private colleges"? 99% of the immigrant college grads I've known went to public colleges, most of which were not particularly selective. And even if "admissions committee of private colleges" were given that…

> And even if "admissions committee of private colleges" were given that exclusive power, that sounds a lot better to me than the mindless operation of an unjust lottery.

It's not. A lottery is infinitely more fair than letting an unelected and unaccountable group of people on a college campus decide basic questions like who does and does not get to become long term members of our country's society.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#203

Post by willcipriano »

bradleyjg wrote: post #11
cherryteastain wrote: post #9

Why is there a lottery anyway instead of a salary ranking/salary threshold system? This'd disincentivize bad actors, ensure the US domestic labor pool is not undercut, and (more or less) lead to higher quality H-1B immigrants.

Because regions and industries that pay less would be mad, and they’ve got lots of congressmen.

Regions and industries that pay less don't need more labor, hence the unwillingness to pay for it.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#204

Post by lsllc »

pkoiralap wrote: post #52

Something that I personally feel unfair about the H1B lottery is that it doesn't consider where you live and what you are currently doing. Students that graduate through a STEM degree get to work for 3 years in their OPT (Optional Practical Training). This extends then to them having 3 chances (one per year) at getting the H1B. Now what's unfair is that an employer in the US can apply H1B for employees living oversee…

... if you don't get the H1B after 3 tries, some international companies will send the employee overseas to an office in a more tech-work-visa friendly country, have them work there for a year then bring them back on an L-1 (intracompany transfer).

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#205

Post by bluGill »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #179
bluGill wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the rich monopolize it. You really think some foreign person is key - then bid $1million/year salary to that person. You want some cheap labor, then only bid cheap and risk not getting them. Of course this is open for abuse so we need to investigate every instance of someone leaving - if we determine you were mistreating the employee then you pay them the full $1 million despite them finding a job elsewhere th…

> You really think some foreign person is key - then bid $1million/year salary to that person. You want some cheap labor, then only bid cheap and risk not getting them. I mean this a foolish solution that will just make industries reliant on certain specialized experts not feasible. The reality is that the majority of Americans don't even have a college degree and Americans are a shrinking, aging populace. The few le…

Then develop local experts.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#206

Post by confidantlake »

shagie wrote: post #86
confidantlake wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So raise wages in those industries.

The revenue per employee in nearly every industry other than software development cannot compete with that of software development. There is no way to raise the wages of a teacher or for that matter, a civil engineer ( https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=civil+engineer&city=&... ) to that of a software developer and have that organization remain competitive or within budget. Saying "raise the wages in those indust…

If you cannot make a profit without importing cheap h1bs you don't have a viable business.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#207

Post by slackfan »

bedobi wrote: post #150
dahfizz wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're claiming the native population of rich western countries are uneducated? And immigrants from the third world are all doctors and rocket scientists coming to save the day? uhuh...

Have you spent a day in Australia? Overflowing with homegrown bogans working in resource extraction and the trades (at best), meanwhile professionals like Drs and Scientists (including Computer Scientists) are overwhelmingly migrants. So yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

What a racist and bigoted perspective. I'm so sorry.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#208

Post by shagie »

confidantlake wrote: post #206
shagie wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The revenue per employee in nearly every industry other than software development cannot compete with that of software development. There is no way to raise the wages of a teacher or for that matter, a civil engineer ( https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=civil+engineer&city=&... ) to that of a software developer and have that organization remain competitive or within budget. Saying "raise the wages in those indust…

If you cannot make a profit without importing cheap h1bs you don't have a viable business.

Public school districts aren't a viable business to begin with.

When competing with big tech compensation and revenue per employee, no other businesses are viable.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#209

Post by shagie »

kjksf wrote: post #49
citrin_ru wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counter argument I've seen - with auction only IT companies will be able to hire H-1B workers and other industries like healthcare and pharma and even chip production will be out-priced. Different industries have different level of salaries. $200k/y salary may suppress SDE wages in Silicon Valley but it is well above market rate for an electrical or a chemical engineer.

It's only a counter argument if you make an assumption that H1-B program is designed to bring, specifically, healthcare or pharma workers. Unless you can point to a reason why law of supply and demand was breached, high salaries reflect high demand vs. low supply and low salaries reflect low demand vs. high supply. My understanding is that healthcare and pharma are not exactly poor industries so if they don't pay the…

> It's hard to game, simple to apply and trivial to verify (once you issue SSN you check with IRS once a year if they are really paid what the company said it will pay). And if companies try some fraud they are now in the business of tax fraud.

This is one of the areas where it may be easier to game - at least until the people committing the fraud have gained a bit, shut down the business, and moved on (at least for the smaller instances - larger consultancies would have more difficulty but they game in other ways).

Government agencies are notoriously siloed and often have laws preventing all but the most limited data exchange between agencies.

Consider https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/03/student-aid-tool-held-ke...

The IRS Data Retrieval Tool isn't "send data from IRS to DoEd" but rather "send data to the individual who then sends it to DoEd".

The exchange of data between agencies is specified in Information Exchange Agreement

https://www.cms.gov/about-cms/information-systems/privacy/da...

https://www.ssa.gov/dataexchange/documents/IEA(F)%20State%20...

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/tax-infor...

https://www.hhs.gov/guidance/sites/default/files/hhs-guidanc...

The referenced privacy act: https://home.treasury.gov/footer/privacy-act

This leads to it being easier for each department to establish its own set of data (so it doesn't need to go through the difficulty of having an IEA with all of that additional bureaucracy and since there's more than enough work for for underfunded agencies working with data that you don't have gets deprioritized) ... and such fraud is likely easier to do or takes many years to raise up enough discrepancies to merit further investigation by qualified investigators.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#210

Post by shermantanktop »

CPLX wrote: post #172
shermantanktop wrote: post #104

The H-1B system is voluntary indentured servitude. It’s well paid, especially by the standards of the source country. Employers love it. Visa applicants still find the prospect appealing, even if their experience may not be great. But the power dynamics of the situation are not that different from what a migrant lettuce picker in California has to navigate. The lettuce picker actually might have more freedom.

It’s not servitude they can quit any time and leave the country.

That's the voluntary part. Voluntarily choosing to go back, when an entire family may depend on the income, is not that voluntary.

The indentured part is the extended commitment to a single employer, enforced by law, with clocks running all the time on the various phases.

The servitude part is the threat of deportation that hangs over the person if they dare to question workloads or treatment. Most places don't make this obvious, but they don't have to - it is an iron fist in a velvet glove.

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