I Lost Faith in Kagi

I recommend following their changelog: https://kagi.com/changelog

Yeah my goal in using SearXNG is really getting better results, not privacy, that's more secondary for me. It's pretty good at filtering out the clickbait crap. I guess every engine promotes its own clickbait.

And of course I block cookies and ads heavily, bypass paywalls, the works. I'm sure I'm pretty trackable anyway with so many addons. Also I'm probably one out of 10 that uses my specific OS/browser combo. So with fingerprinting they have got me anyway.

I run it on a VPS so I don't really care, that one is not used for exit traffic of any other kind except an IRC bouncer. And if I really need to I can just switch to another IP :P

But you’re not talking about Tim Cook, this is a guy running a company of ~10 people. Someone on the internet, with a following and an audience, has written an essay about how Vlad is a bad person, and now is implying the latter is abusive for trying to have a conversation.

This is psychotic behavior.

There’s a huge spectrum between NY Times writing a sourced article about a powerful business magnate and someone disparaging an SMB owner on their blog. If I took the posts and emails of someone I knew in my life and posted them online, I would probably get a call from the police.

I've been using Kagi since the early in the beta, and I've been happy with it. I think most of this article is maybe a bit overblown, but there are a few things that give me pause.

On the positive side, I still think Kagi's search results are, practically speaking, better than other search engine's results. I don't make heavy use of filters, but used sparingly they've had a really positive impact on my experience. Same with the AI integrations- I don't use them much, but sometimes I do and I'm glad I have the option.

The investment in AI seems totally sensible to me. I'm not "all in" on AI, but it seems obvious to me that AI both clearly compliments document retrieval for a search engine, and integrating AI services fits well with the idea of putting together a service backed by things like Google or OpenAI's APIs (and maybe slowly replacing those dependencies as you grow).

I'm not a mac user, and Orion on iOS was super buggy so I stopped using it, but I guess I can see an argument that it's a worthwhile investment if it's an effective funnel to get people into Kagi. Apple users seem more likely than other groups to pay for things (like a kagi subscription), and if there aren't other ways of getting Kagi added as a default search engine in Safari or Chrome then it seems like a plausible investment I suppose. Maybe not the choice I'd have made, but not something that really makes me question the company either.

Email seems to fit the same narrative as Orion to me. If I were in charge I'm not sure I'd prioritize it, but Google has normalized bundling of email and search for a lot of users, and I can definitely see a plausible argument that people who are already logging into google to use their gmail account would be more likely to churn than people who stay in the Kagi ecosystem.

I had no idea the tshirt thing happened, and sure, it seems like a weird choice but whatever, I don't think it's worth getting up in arms about either.

All that said, the privacy angle does concern me a fair bit. I'm going to give Vlad a bit of the benefit of the doubt here on email. As a fairly privacy conscious person I still pay Google to host my email. Why? Because email is really only as private as the counterparty you are emailing with. The vast majority of people I correspond with are already using Google for email, so keeping my side of the conversation private has a lower ROI than a lot of other things I could spend effort on.

I do worry a lot about other areas of privacy with Kagi though, especially in light of the "let's not get political" comments. We're only getting one side of the conversation, but it had very "right leaning dogwhistle" type vibes to me. Of course with only a few screen shots of a discord conversation it's very hard to know how accurate those vibes might be. I suppose for the moment I'd just say that it gives me pause, and makes me think about how I could recommend Kagi to people who might not be technically savvy enough to understand the potential consequences of their online behavior. Without a much stronger idea of privacy, I would very much worry about anyone using Kagi to search for information related to, e.g. pregnancy if even something as innocuous as searching for pregnancy tests could be used as evidence in a criminal trial against someone accused of a felony for having an abortion- as is the direction many US states are headed. Similarly, I would wonder if I could, in good conscience, recommend people use Kagi to search for any LGBT related material today because they are significant concerns that such searches could be used to persecute people today in many countries, including some US states today and possibly many more US states in the near future.

I'm not likely to cancel my subscription or stop using Kagi over this today. I'm still getting value out of the product, and I think the basic idea that we should have an option for things like search where users are the customer and not the product is a fundamentally sound and important one. The very fact that a lot of people commenting in this thread about privacy concerns are customers and not the product is a great opportunity to demonstrate why it's an important idea.

The author seems to deliberately misunderstand the language that a non-native English speaker is using, for the purposes of maximizing outrage. There isn't any citation, but I doubt Vlad said anything like that. If I had to guess, I'd assume it was a more nuanced take like "3-star reviews are less likely to be biased than 5-star reviews."

For example, Kagi very clearly does not own a t-shirt factory, and this worst-faith take makes me distrust the entire post.