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H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

theregister.com

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Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#71

Post by confidantlake »

citrin_ru wrote: post #35
Zigurd wrote: post #26

Since H-1B says it is supposedly intended for high-value employees unobtainable in the US, why not auction the visas, with a reserve price that would prevent them being used to push down wages?

A counter argument I've seen - with auction only IT companies will be able to hire H-1B workers and other industries like healthcare and pharma and even chip production will be out-priced. Different industries have different level of salaries. $200k/y salary may suppress SDE wages in Silicon Valley but it is well above market rate for an electrical or a chemical engineer.

So raise wages in those industries.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#72

Post by bluGill »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #55
commandlinefan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead of a salary ranking/salary threshold Because in spite of what the law actually says, the entire purpose of the H1B visa program is and always has been a way to get mostly adequate people who'll work cheap.

No, this isn't true and never was. The reason is that having a lottery is a set of tradeoffs. You sort of corruption-proof the system by not allowing rich industries to monopolize foreign talent. In exchange, since you can't use salary or terminal degree to distinguish, you kinda have to make sure abuse is tamped down as much as possible. The H1B program is extremely important in a country which has 1) an aging, shri…

I wish the rich monopolize it. You really think some foreign person is key - then bid $1million/year salary to that person. You want some cheap labor, then only bid cheap and risk not getting them.

Of course this is open for abuse so we need to investigate every instance of someone leaving - if we determine you were mistreating the employee then you pay them the full $1 million despite them finding a job elsewhere that might only pay $100k/year. (if they just take that lower paying job because it is interesting you are fine, but if they go for better working conditions it will cost you)

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#73

Post by bluGill »

rqtwteye wrote: post #59
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this isn't true and never was. The reason is that having a lottery is a set of tradeoffs. You sort of corruption-proof the system by not allowing rich industries to monopolize foreign talent. In exchange, since you can't use salary or terminal degree to distinguish, you kinda have to make sure abuse is tamped down as much as possible. The H1B program is extremely important in a country which has 1) an aging, shri…

From my observation the number of highly qualified H1Bs is a small share of the total number. Most are average or below average that are held captive by Infosys and friends.

That is a different form of abuse from if only the rich could afford to bid. I think it is overall worse (see my other reply) - but I'll freely admit there may be some abuse I'm not aware of that makes my current alternative worse.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#74

Post by shagie »

freeone3000 wrote: post #57
shagie wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not "high value", but rather "high skill". Some examples of occupations that need a professional degree in order to be filled. Information Technology Software engineers Database administrators Teachers Primary Secondary University Health care professionals Physicians Nurses Dentists Psychologists Engineers Civil Chemical Mechanical Industrial Surveyors ... and Fashion models With an auction approach, would the softwa…

It might be my naiveity, but, shouldn’t highly-skilled and in-demand professions be the highly valued ones? Something’s gone terribly wrong if there’s few teachers, it’s hard to get new teachers, but the price of teachers remains the same. It makes no sense from a labor standpoint.

Compensation is often coupled with revenue generation - not skills.

Teachers generate no revenue.

Compare the compensation for big tech software developers vs those employed directly in public sector. Its not that public sector are less skilled, nor less in demand - but rather public sector doesn't generate revenue and its budget is a different path.

I would contend that this isn't "teachers and public sector software developers are necessarily poorly compensated" (though I will say that teachers should be paid more) but rather that the revenue that is coupled with a software developer in the private sector is disproportionately high and so companies in that domain can compensate more highly.

The control of teachers salaries are based on what funding the school district gets which comes from taxes. The public tends to prefer low taxes and models which do not allow tax dollars collected in one spot to be used in another which depresses the compensation for everyone in public sector (including teachers).

Unless you are at or near the top and have control of the budgeting, rarely will public sector pay on the same scale as private sector.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#75

Post by [deleted] »

rtkwe wrote: post #67
pkoiralap wrote: post #52

Something that I personally feel unfair about the H1B lottery is that it doesn't consider where you live and what you are currently doing. Students that graduate through a STEM degree get to work for 3 years in their OPT (Optional Practical Training). This extends then to them having 3 chances (one per year) at getting the H1B. Now what's unfair is that an employer in the US can apply H1B for employees living oversee…

I would expect that to be partially counter balanced by companies being more willing to sponsor someone already in the US over someone currently overseas? Haven't had to go through that process fortunately but seems likely from a practical standpoint.

[deleted]

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#76

Post by prithsr »

ab8 wrote: post #62

Why do they all keep saying H1-B workers are underpaid? The government determines minimum pay for each application. My experience has been that this number is quite high.

The government sets payscale 'tiers' based on qualifications / roles, and these tiers determine the minimum you're able to earn once you obtain an H-1B or PERM. the employer is still able to work w/ the lawyers to get you to fall at a lesser paying tier, and also offer no further growth/compensation as they have no incentive to-- regardless of performance or structure.

Source: My exact role and bulk of responsibilities are valued at at least 2x; but given how difficult it is (for me, at least) to transition out given the job market, I have no other option but to stay or simply leave the country.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#77

Post by shmatt »

victor106 wrote: post #64
testfrequency wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this a few times and am really struggling to see how this scam works out. Crudely speaking, are these agencies just finding existing green card holders and American citizens with names that they can use to put down on paperwork…then hire the foreign worker who happens to have have the same name…and this somehow bypasses some sort of legal checks somewhere? What’s the point of a SSN?

Yeah, I was thinking the same. This is just wrong on so many levels. This is what leads to identity fraud. I am reaching out to my congressman and senators office to let them know that several elements of this program are abused so much they should take a fresh look at this. I suggest you do the same. I truly believe that immigration is what keeps America the greatest country in the world. But this kind of abuse need…

Giving your place of work fake IDs and passports is already illegal. How would your representatives fix this? Fingerprinting every day in the lobby?

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#78

Post by shmatt »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #15

Just question. For software jobs. Why is there a demand that can drive abuse. When there are so many people that can't find jobs? It seems like right now there should not be enough demand for H1-b (for software) to justify abuse. Like it shouldn't be profitable enough.

The unfortunate answer is: love them or hate them, people can't pass the leetcode interviews

I've worked as a hiring manager in multiple companies, and recommending or not recommending a hire is done without any knowledge of their status, but solely on the 45 minute interview I did. If they need some sponsorship thats done without communicating to me, I just say yes/no. And with that, somehow most of the Yes's need sponsorship, so what else can you do from an interviewing perspective

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#79

Post by kachurovskiy »

In Germany visa applicants are evaluated based on merit without a lottery for decade and it's working well. US could do something similar instead of using a hole in the fence but it doesn't look like the decision making system is capable of making hard decisions like that.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#80

Post by bluGill »

gibbonsrcool wrote: post #70
ab8 wrote: post #62

Why do they all keep saying H1-B workers are underpaid? The government determines minimum pay for each application. My experience has been that this number is quite high.

Even if the pay by salary amount is fair, these workers can be exploited to work more hours than their non-H1B colleagues such that if their pay was broken down hourly it would be comparatively lower.

Back in their home country they are probably expected to work those same hours (or more!) for a lot less money. By our standards it is exploit, but often for them it is better.
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