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H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

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Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#51

Post by finolex1 »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #36
robertlagrant wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But good for the people running the consulting companies, and their friends in politics.

Yup and that is why people like Narayan Murthy are the greatest criminals in the history of India. Ruined an entire generation of Indians by teaching them to do second hand work and stopped any original thinking from happening. That is why they are so behind China.

I think you're getting the order of causation reversed. The alternative to Infosys in the 90s would be to move abroad or work in a government job. You can't build a Porsche on day 1 - you have to start with the 10k car.

The consulting companies kick started the engineering base that eventually led to MNCs/big tech setting up offices in India, and the broader startup ecosystem today.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#52

Post by pkoiralap »

Something that I personally feel unfair about the H1B lottery is that it doesn't consider where you live and what you are currently doing. Students that graduate through a STEM degree get to work for 3 years in their OPT (Optional Practical Training). This extends then to them having 3 chances (one per year) at getting the H1B. Now what's unfair is that an employer in the US can apply H1B for employees living oversees. That application then goes to the same pool where H1B application of the employees that are already living in the US go. The very same people that already hold a college or graduate degree, are already living in the US, and are contributing to the US economy. Unfortunately, the lottery is fair. So those that don't get picked up even after their third attempt are kicked out. They leave their life that they were trying to build in the US, potentially their girlfriends and partners, their friends, and their possessions. While that happens, someone who has never stepped foot in the US soil gets to go to the US. So in a sense it's fair for them. And while there is no real metric to measure this, when compared, between the fairness people oversees get and the unfairness people already living in the US experience, I personally think that the later tips the scale by a huge margin.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#53

Post by DopplerSmell »

lesuorac wrote: post #47
cherryteastain wrote: post #9

Why is there a lottery anyway instead of a salary ranking/salary threshold system? This'd disincentivize bad actors, ensure the US domestic labor pool is not undercut, and (more or less) lead to higher quality H-1B immigrants.

Well, not all specialties pay the same so it'd be problematic if some of the worse paying ones had a bunch of unfilled spots while higher ones didn't. There isn't a (financial) incentive to quit your better paying job to work a less paying one. I think a better solution is just a "tariff" where a company has to pay an additional 50% of the total compensation to the government. Then if you could fill the spot with an…

This completely ignores higher order effects, if you can't employ someone to do a task at a wage that makes profit, it creates conditions where capital investment in innovation and labour multiplication makes more sense.

It never makes sense to import someone who has less earning potential than any other candidate; at least not in a long term context (it makes plenty of sense for a current business for their own short term profit).

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#54

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

throwkk wrote: post #20

I was told that entering in as a refugee is the easiest way compared to H1B, Is it true?

Probably the easiest way is to work for a large US company with operations abroad for a year, and then come to the US under a blanket L-1.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#55

Post by aprilthird2021 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #50
cherryteastain wrote: post #9

Why is there a lottery anyway instead of a salary ranking/salary threshold system? This'd disincentivize bad actors, ensure the US domestic labor pool is not undercut, and (more or less) lead to higher quality H-1B immigrants.

> instead of a salary ranking/salary threshold Because in spite of what the law actually says, the entire purpose of the H1B visa program is and always has been a way to get mostly adequate people who'll work cheap.

No, this isn't true and never was. The reason is that having a lottery is a set of tradeoffs. You sort of corruption-proof the system by not allowing rich industries to monopolize foreign talent. In exchange, since you can't use salary or terminal degree to distinguish, you kinda have to make sure abuse is tamped down as much as possible.

The H1B program is extremely important in a country which has 1) an aging, shrinking population and 2) generally poor educational outcomes for its citizens compared to developed nation peers.

The very fact that some of the biggest companies in the world are helmed by former H1Bs tells you how helpful of a program it really has been for the US.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#56

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

odux wrote: post #23
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #15

Just question. For software jobs. Why is there a demand that can drive abuse. When there are so many people that can't find jobs? It seems like right now there should not be enough demand for H1-b (for software) to justify abuse. Like it shouldn't be profitable enough.

There are actually four large “buckets” on H1B usage in software. First are the “regular” software jobs. At the large tech players or other regular companies (eg a software job at a bank). Like you said, there is a lot of supply due to layoffs and not a lot of demand. H1Bs in this area are also limited this year due to this. Second are the college graduates. Once you complete a STEM degree as a foreign student you ge…

People in the F1 + OPT category (second category from above) are really the most unjustly treated by the current process.

Oftentimes, these are people who have come to the US aged 18, lived here through a four-year college degree, maybe a masters; have subsequently been employed for up to two years (for STEM grads) for their OPT; and then have to compete on a like-for-like basis with candidates who are living abroad.

It's ridiculous. You've spent your entire adult life in the US and you have to participate in a lottery to keep your job.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#57

Post by freeone3000 »

shagie wrote: post #32
Zigurd wrote: post #26

Since H-1B says it is supposedly intended for high-value employees unobtainable in the US, why not auction the visas, with a reserve price that would prevent them being used to push down wages?

Not "high value", but rather "high skill". Some examples of occupations that need a professional degree in order to be filled. Information Technology Software engineers Database administrators Teachers Primary Secondary University Health care professionals Physicians Nurses Dentists Psychologists Engineers Civil Chemical Mechanical Industrial Surveyors ... and Fashion models With an auction approach, would the softwa…

It might be my naiveity, but, shouldn’t highly-skilled and in-demand professions be the highly valued ones? Something’s gone terribly wrong if there’s few teachers, it’s hard to get new teachers, but the price of teachers remains the same. It makes no sense from a labor standpoint.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#58

Post by victor106 »

> We're told some consultancies tap up foreigners to work for clients illegally using the identities of legit citizens or green card holders.

"That's where the true scam is and the real money is at,"

If they are really doing this. It’s outrageous. And out right illegal.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#59

Post by rqtwteye »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #55
commandlinefan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead of a salary ranking/salary threshold Because in spite of what the law actually says, the entire purpose of the H1B visa program is and always has been a way to get mostly adequate people who'll work cheap.

No, this isn't true and never was. The reason is that having a lottery is a set of tradeoffs. You sort of corruption-proof the system by not allowing rich industries to monopolize foreign talent. In exchange, since you can't use salary or terminal degree to distinguish, you kinda have to make sure abuse is tamped down as much as possible. The H1B program is extremely important in a country which has 1) an aging, shri…

From my observation the number of highly qualified H1Bs is a small share of the total number. Most are average or below average that are held captive by Infosys and friends.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#60

Post by testfrequency »

victor106 wrote: post #58

> We're told some consultancies tap up foreigners to work for clients illegally using the identities of legit citizens or green card holders. "That's where the true scam is and the real money is at," If they are really doing this. It’s outrageous. And out right illegal.

I read this a few times and am really struggling to see how this scam works out.

Crudely speaking, are these agencies just finding existing green card holders and American citizens with names that they can use to put down on paperwork…then hire the foreign worker who happens to have have the same name…and this somehow bypasses some sort of legal checks somewhere? What’s the point of a SSN?

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