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I Lost Faith in Kagi

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Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#211

Post by ceejayoz »

carlosjobim wrote: post #183
Kuinox wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are people who argue that just the name of a person is PII and they are wrong. > ‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, [...] https://gdpr.eu/article-4-definitions/ A name is PII, as stated by…

You're misunderstanding. The name by itself is not personal data, but data connected to a name is.

"in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name"

What is there to misunderstand?

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#212

Post by EricAski »

I am surprised that nobody mentioned Kagi Maps so far. To me this is the largest waste of energy possible, building an Apple/Google Maps competitor is a project too ambitious and time consuming for a 12 person company which is also developing a search engine (and a browser, and AI assistants, etc.). Kagi should nail their search engine first and only then start side projects like that.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#213

Post by Closi »

nunez wrote: post #191
yreg wrote: post #29

I've read the first third of the article and I didn't get what's the author's problem with Kagi. What do they care how many employees Kagi has or how much they spend on t-shirts. Then I scrolled through the rest of it and read the very last screenshot. That one looks pretty bad. > people who really need anonymity are very rare. probably less than a 100 in the entire world. definitely not typical Kagi users > unless t…

He's right though (or at least I agree with him). Full anonymity is hard to achieve. Kagi is aiming for more privacy, I.e. a search engine and browser that doesn't track your habits or sell them to data brokers to identify you. Kagi does that very well.

Eh, a founder that effectively says 'we don't care if we give away the identity of our users if they are criminals' is not totally in line with my definition of an organization focused on privacy.

At least not a definition of privacy I really care about.

It's very Mark Zuckerberg 2004.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#214

Post by freediver »

figassis wrote: post #203

I noticed Orion is very very buggy, and I found it odd from a revenue oriented company. I was desperately looking for a way out of the chromium world and also avoiding Firefox, so when I found Orion I thought this is where I'd settle and maybe help development. But the bugs are so counter productive, that you can't even manage bookmarks. Something was off with that browser's team.

It is very hard to build a browser from scratch. Yes Orion is still in beta and buggy, but there are hundreds of people who paid $150 for a lifetime license for this browser, which makes me hopeful that there is a space for a browser we pay for and is built with users' best interest in mind. That is incredibly important for Kagi's mission.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#215

Post by mrweasel »

Maybe a little off topic, but regarding Orion: Can someone explain to me why every search engine feel like they need to build their own browser, and by build I mean jiggle the handles on Chromium a bit?

It seems pointless. I can sort of see why Microsoft would do it, but that's Microsoft wanting a modern browser for their operating system, not DuckDuckGo, Kagi or Ecosia wanting a browser for their search box.

Why this is pretty much just a weird rant about Kagi, I do agree with the questioning of the investment in maintaining a browser.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#216

Post by figassis »

freediver wrote: post #214
figassis wrote: post #203

I noticed Orion is very very buggy, and I found it odd from a revenue oriented company. I was desperately looking for a way out of the chromium world and also avoiding Firefox, so when I found Orion I thought this is where I'd settle and maybe help development. But the bugs are so counter productive, that you can't even manage bookmarks. Something was off with that browser's team.

It is very hard to build a browser from scratch. Yes Orion is still in beta and buggy, but there are hundreds of people who paid $150 for a lifetime license for this browser, which makes me hopeful that there is a space for a browser we pay for and is built with users' best interest in mind. That is incredibly important for Kagi's mission.

It is important, and I thought it'd be amazing. So then take it seriously. If you need more funding then find a better pricing model. But it is a shame that a project so attractive feels like it's abandoned.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#217

Post by Closi »

freediver wrote: post #214
figassis wrote: post #203

I noticed Orion is very very buggy, and I found it odd from a revenue oriented company. I was desperately looking for a way out of the chromium world and also avoiding Firefox, so when I found Orion I thought this is where I'd settle and maybe help development. But the bugs are so counter productive, that you can't even manage bookmarks. Something was off with that browser's team.

It is very hard to build a browser from scratch. Yes Orion is still in beta and buggy, but there are hundreds of people who paid $150 for a lifetime license for this browser, which makes me hopeful that there is a space for a browser we pay for and is built with users' best interest in mind. That is incredibly important for Kagi's mission.

Yes - but why do it is the main point?

Why not focus on doing one thing properly?

Although you seem to obviously be attracting enough money so it's up to you how to spend/burn it :)

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#218

Post by Terretta »

go88faxme wrote: post #75

That is why I pay duckduckgo which include vpn. I also run my own searxng. I used to subscribe Kagi last year. But after researching I came to the same conclusion as Tomte. Nothing unusual. Just business. DDG already is Kagi with solid business and proven privacy (almost anyway, I know about their Microsoft connection). DDG interface need improvement though.

DDG was certainly privacy oriented, but for various reasons in recent years I was not able to maintain conviction on the alignment of revenue sources / financial incentives with that mission. (It's still the one I set any time I help someone with their machine, unless they're willing to pay, then it's been kagi.)

The latest all-in-one privacy subscription may be a course correction to have more revenue directly from those who care about their own privacy, to better align the incentives.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#219

Post by JohnFen »

I get where he's coming from, but I don't really find those arguments to be a huge problem. Probably because my "ideal" search engine doesn't exist. I have to choose out of the offerings on the market, and Kagi is the least objectionable of them for me.

In terms of letting me find what I'm looking for, Kagi is the best search engine I've tried. At worst, it's no less "private" than the alternatives.

The AI stuff is irrelevant to me until it starts degrading the search results I get. I just ignore their AI-related features. No big deal, and certainly no worse than others.

All the other criticisms (t-shirts, etc.) don't matter at all to me. What matters is search quality.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#220

Post by 34679 »

yreg wrote: post #29

I've read the first third of the article and I didn't get what's the author's problem with Kagi. What do they care how many employees Kagi has or how much they spend on t-shirts. Then I scrolled through the rest of it and read the very last screenshot. That one looks pretty bad. > people who really need anonymity are very rare. probably less than a 100 in the entire world. definitely not typical Kagi users > unless t…

> unless they are criminals, in which case we don't care they don't have full anonymity (nor we want them as customers)

People helping other people escape slavery were criminals.

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