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Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

reuters.com

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Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#191

Post by ChainOfFools »

lazide wrote: post #176
Log_out_ wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which one and why is cheating nepotism not as widespread as with everything else? In a company or functioning democracy in competition, if you nepotism, you kill the company..

Only if the person picked via nepotism isn’t competent. Which is less likely (one would hope) than via other methods, but the correlation is not as strong as we’d all like.

> Only if the person picked via nepotism isn’t competent.

It'd be interesting to know how much this phenomenon would explain the stability of otherwise culturally ossified regimes that stood for four or five centuries before collapsing, where government was built almost entirely out of extreme nepotism in which the ruling potentate had 50 or 60 kids to choose from, and thus had a shot at picking the most capable from the, er, top of the class.

Or the most ambitious /ruthless pick themselves, taking the old man and/or their dangerously competitive siblings out of the picture.

Either way there is a little more competition involved then what we normally think of with a modern family unit.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#193

Post by tcmart14 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #189
tcmart14 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, there is more nuance that happens here. Some of what the early Soviet government authorized during the Russian Civil War with the Whites was not all that different from what Lincoln authorized for the Union during the American civil war. So I give some leeway to Lenin on that. For sure, Lenin never intended Stalin to get power. After all, Lenin made Stalin party secretary general or something like that, whi…

I personally subscribe to the Trotskyist analysis that the root cause of the rot that led to Stalinism was the isolation of the revolution in one country, and nothing Lenin could have personally have done would have made a difference once the German revolution failed. They were politically and economically isolated, and unable to effectively administer governance, and if it hadn't been Stalin's brutal form of dictato…

Thanks for the book recommendation, I will definitely check it out! I personally enjoy reading Russian history, it is fascinating and highly complex. It is also just revealing on how much society ideologically focuses on certain sets of history. Like in Russia, focusing on Stalin as the ultimate baddie of Russia. While Stalin sure as hell wasn't a good guy. There isn't a whole unique to his form of brutal-ism compared to the Tsarists before the USSR. The KGB of the time were doing essentially the same things the Tsarist secret police were doing before them. Many of the Tsars were also extremely brutal. Russia really just had gotten a bad hand of leadership for most of the past 1,000 years.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#194

Post by lazide »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #191
lazide wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the person picked via nepotism isn’t competent. Which is less likely (one would hope) than via other methods, but the correlation is not as strong as we’d all like.

> Only if the person picked via nepotism isn’t competent. It'd be interesting to know how much this phenomenon would explain the stability of otherwise culturally ossified regimes that stood for four or five centuries before collapsing, where government was built almost entirely out of extreme nepotism in which the ruling potentate had 50 or 60 kids to choose from, and thus had a shot at picking the most capable from…

There is also the factor that the nepo kids are trained since birth for the role, often with the best education money can buy.

Training makes up a lot for stupidity and other gaps.

At some point, it doesn’t matter enough, but that can go quite awhile.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#195

Post by rtpg »

amou234 wrote: post #168
rtpg wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s good to be clear headed and acknowledge empirical evidence when it’s there. Context is useful in understanding the mechanisms of society! “This thing goes against my orthodoxy therefore I refuse to see it” is exactly the sort of attitude that gets you far away from success. For the record, I was merely saying it’s possible for a state owned enterprise to do things quickly, even if in practice most of the…

Sure, then by all means share your evidence or data for a successful state owned enterprise vs private enterprises

I mean the topic of this thread is basically on how we have a bunch of well performing, pretty fast Chinese companies. This is happening despite these companies having a lot of buy-in from the state (down to outright ownership).

One might start trying to say "well a bunch of money from the state isn't enough to consider it a state owned enterprise", but then the contention is a bit more specific than just about being state owned.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#196

Post by vikramkr »

nebula8804 wrote: post #172
vikramkr wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I - that's a truly stunning mindset I don't have words. Why would you consider the market leader of a market a reliable source for information on the market? Maybe this is obvious to me coming from a world where all banks have their own analysts and all but the idea of trusting a market leader is just insane. Information asymmetry is so important to capitalism he's obviously not going to provide the full picture. The…

>Why would you consider the market leader of a market a reliable source for information on the market? You seem to be ignoring how they literally created and led this market over the last 15+ years. I get how you are so blinded by your hate of one man that you completely ignore the facts on the ground but do you have to make it so obvious? > Maybe this is obvious to me coming from a world where all banks have their o…

I mean, if you're just going to ignore the core point then I guess feel free. The disconnect seems to be that you think it's somehow reflects poorly on Elon that he's good at his job! Being self serving is good, controlling information to maximize your leverage is good, these are good things. Especially in a competitive market! The stupid decisions I'm referring to tend to be ones like buying Twitter or tweeting nonsense that causes him to lose control of the narrative. I don't care whether he actually thinks that not having trade barriers means Tesla will be wiped out, all that matters is that lobbying for trade barriers is the right move for the business. Also what's your obsession with trusting people? Why would you trust analysts? Or any source of information? Every source of information is biased, incomplete, and useful.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#197

Post by refurb »

mharig wrote: post #154
refurb wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I’ve seen the motivation of Chinese workers is the same as any worker - to make money.

You would be astonished how many people want to live a calm and good life, with making money as just one mean, and hence secondary, if you would come out of your capitalist bubble.

Stay on topic bro, now isn't the time for your anti-capitalist views.

We're talking about "the people doing the day to day work are fiercely competitive and they want it all".

Do you really think those people's main goal is "to live a calm and good life".

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#198

Post by refurb »

Teever wrote: post #163
refurb wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you go. For some reason I thought it was a quasi-private company owned partially by the government.

I'm going to assume that you're American. You may find insight after reflecting on why a non-American knows this detail about the USPS while you don't.

I'm actually not.

I'm wondering why you know an obscure fact about postal service in a country you don't live in?

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#199

Post by Teever »

refurb wrote: post #198
Teever wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to assume that you're American. You may find insight after reflecting on why a non-American knows this detail about the USPS while you don't.

I'm actually not. I'm wondering why you know an obscure fact about postal service in a country you don't live in?

Because it is important to understand how the world works and America is a very influential country.
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