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Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

reuters.com

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Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#161

Post by nebula8804 »

vikramkr wrote: post #103
nebula8804 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok feel free to not be worried. I'd rather listen to Elon in this regard, this is one thing he does have experience in. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... >The EU just got a step closer to hitting Chinese EVs with additional tariffs—and may even apply them retroactively The EU having no major tech giants to call their own has pivoted to regulation and tariffs against both China and t…

You're really gonna take a statement from a CEO that it's important for the government to intervene in order to protect his profits at face value? Elon's made some stupid decisions in the past but I don't think he's stupid enough to be honest . Not lobbying for protectionist measures even if they aren't needed would probably be some sort of corporate malpractice.

When it comes to getting advice on where the EV market is going, I am definetly going to listen to the guy who is the leader of EVs in the US. Would I take relationship advice from him? Probably not, but we are talking about the EV market here.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#162

Post by temporarely »

realusername wrote: post #125
rtpg wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you presenting a false dichotomy here? Perhaps they are having their cake and eating it too, so to speak. Not to comment on the supposed economic malaise of the moment. Sometimes state-owned enterprises might be able to outperform a private structure!

> Sometimes state-owned enterprises might be able to outperform a private structure! They can ... until they don't and there's no market correction in place anymore to keep them in check. It's going to take another decade to feel this effect but it'll be there in full force.

This is sound analysis sans ideological bs. The system lacks a self-correction mechanism.

The profit driven system is supposed to self-correct. We see this today, with Boeing for example (yes /s).

Now beyond snark, we can ask is the same thing happening to us that happened to the "commies" with the 'defense and national security' establishment raising troubling doppelgangers of "state industry" from the body of "market driven" neo-liberal capitalist societies?

So, we see issue is not really "ownership" but rather establishments ..

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#163

Post by Teever »

refurb wrote: post #152
stefanfisk wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the first line: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service

There you go. For some reason I thought it was a quasi-private company owned partially by the government.

I'm going to assume that you're American.

You may find insight after reflecting on why a non-American knows this detail about the USPS while you don't.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#164

Post by vikramkr »

nebula8804 wrote: post #161
vikramkr wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really gonna take a statement from a CEO that it's important for the government to intervene in order to protect his profits at face value? Elon's made some stupid decisions in the past but I don't think he's stupid enough to be honest . Not lobbying for protectionist measures even if they aren't needed would probably be some sort of corporate malpractice.

When it comes to getting advice on where the EV market is going, I am definetly going to listen to the guy who is the leader of EVs in the US. Would I take relationship advice from him? Probably not, but we are talking about the EV market here.

I - that's a truly stunning mindset I don't have words. Why would you consider the market leader of a market a reliable source for information on the market? Maybe this is obvious to me coming from a world where all banks have their own analysts and all but the idea of trusting a market leader is just insane. Information asymmetry is so important to capitalism he's obviously not going to provide the full picture. There are entire university departments dedicated to coming up with clever estimates for how much drugs cost to develop to justify high prices. This sounds like, would you trust a pharma CEO if they were providing advice on where the pharma market is going? Or a tech CEO on where the tech market is going? Elon is, as you clearly stated, the leader of EVs in the US. Why would you take his advice on the EV market!? The base assumption is that he's going to be quite strongly motivated to stay leader of the EV market, why would you think he cares about giving you accurate advice?

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#165

Post by edmundsauto »

temporarely wrote: post #162
realusername wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes state-owned enterprises might be able to outperform a private structure! They can ... until they don't and there's no market correction in place anymore to keep them in check. It's going to take another decade to feel this effect but it'll be there in full force.

This is sound analysis sans ideological bs. The system lacks a self-correction mechanism. The profit driven system is supposed to self-correct. We see this today, with Boeing for example (yes /s). Now beyond snark, we can ask is the same thing happening to us that happened to the "commies" with the 'defense and national security' establishment raising troubling doppelgangers of "state industry" from the body of "mark…

In fairness, there is a good chance Boeing is self-correcting now. After deaths and lawsuits. If it were a governmental entity, it’s plausible that would not happen and the company would continue as before.

At least that’s the idea, I think. May as well steel man the argument.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#166

Post by qwerasdf5 »

redserk wrote: post #153
wil421 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think it’s open mindedness but I think it’s more hubris. The other day a guy was complaining about being in jail for a time and how unfair it was that he had a criminal record. Lots of open minded people praising him. Then a new user called him out for trying to get with a 12 year old. Yikes.

Regardless, China figured out some formula that has been incredibly successful the last couple decades. While I have doubts about this approach being sustainable, hindsight is 20/20 and we can’t predict the future.

The "formula" was capitalism, introduced by Deng Xiaoping, which lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty.

However, Deng also introduced China's 1-child policy (decidedly not capitalism), which is now beginning to seriously strain the system. The future is indeed uncertain.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#167

Post by [deleted] »

temporarely wrote: post #162
realusername wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes state-owned enterprises might be able to outperform a private structure! They can ... until they don't and there's no market correction in place anymore to keep them in check. It's going to take another decade to feel this effect but it'll be there in full force.

This is sound analysis sans ideological bs. The system lacks a self-correction mechanism. The profit driven system is supposed to self-correct. We see this today, with Boeing for example (yes /s). Now beyond snark, we can ask is the same thing happening to us that happened to the "commies" with the 'defense and national security' establishment raising troubling doppelgangers of "state industry" from the body of "mark…

[deleted]

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#168

Post by amou234 »

rtpg wrote: post #146
amou234 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit hilarious that there are attempts to convince people on a board for hackers and startup founders that state owned enterprises are great and amazing!!

I think it’s good to be clear headed and acknowledge empirical evidence when it’s there. Context is useful in understanding the mechanisms of society! “This thing goes against my orthodoxy therefore I refuse to see it” is exactly the sort of attitude that gets you far away from success. For the record, I was merely saying it’s possible for a state owned enterprise to do things quickly, even if in practice most of the…

Sure, then by all means share your evidence or data for a successful state owned enterprise vs private enterprises

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#169

Post by amou234 »

redserk wrote: post #135
amou234 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit hilarious that there are attempts to convince people on a board for hackers and startup founders that state owned enterprises are great and amazing!!

Well, this is a forum where some degree of openmindedness is encouraged. There have been far many more economic and capital systems on this rock than just American capitalism.

Sure, then by all means share your evidence or data for a successful foreign state owned enterprise vs private enterprises in that country and other countries

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#170

Post by amou234 »

coldtea wrote: post #156
amou234 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit hilarious that there are attempts to convince people on a board for hackers and startup founders that state owned enterprises are great and amazing!!

It shouldn't take much effort, the results speak for themselves... We did get to the moon with "state owned enterprises" anyway...

no profits involved in the moon effort, was not competing with any private enterprise at that time
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