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The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

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Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#111

Post by rasz »

swatcoder wrote: post #91
WorldMaker wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Kia it was Honda and Toyota in the 80s/90s. Before that there was the 70s love affair with small Italian and British imports like Fiat and Mini. Before that was the 60s love affair with Volkswagen. It's a cycle that has happened so many times already in the US of imports filling small car niches (both niches that are small and large niches that include smaller cars) the domestic manufacturers ignore for too ma…

I'm not even a car person, and I can name 2-3 domestics attempts during each of those eras. Nobody's ignoring anything. It's just a hard market for them to sustain because demand is reletively low here and margins are thin as part of the market's intense price sensitivity. It's a good place for new/foreign manufacturers to gain brand awareness because niche demand persists but it's not profitable enough for any car m…

>I can name 2-3 domestics attempts during each of those eras

can you name any that didnt suck? :) That crosses iconic Pinto and Pacer out straight off the bat. In the 80s maybe only Omni was ok, 90s hmm Neon? Rebadged Japanese cars sold under Geo brand dont count.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#113

Post by onion2k »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #110
onion2k wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a forum that's funded entirely on the premise of small startups eating the lunch of big incumbents, this is a weird take.

These are not small startups. They are China government funded enterprises.

I'm not saying they're a startup. I'm saying that a company can take another's market share. No company is ever safe from another company coming along and disrupting the industry it's in. HN is about startups doing it, but it can with big companies as well.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#114

Post by WorldMaker »

rasz wrote: post #111
swatcoder wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even a car person, and I can name 2-3 domestics attempts during each of those eras. Nobody's ignoring anything. It's just a hard market for them to sustain because demand is reletively low here and margins are thin as part of the market's intense price sensitivity. It's a good place for new/foreign manufacturers to gain brand awareness because niche demand persists but it's not profitable enough for any car m…

>I can name 2-3 domestics attempts during each of those eras can you name any that didnt suck? :) That crosses iconic Pinto and Pacer out straight off the bat. In the 80s maybe only Omni was ok, 90s hmm Neon? Rebadged Japanese cars sold under Geo brand dont count.

Geo weren't rebadged, they were built in California. Geo and its NUMMI plant was a strange collaboration between Toyota and GM (even the Geo logo had both Toyota's lines and GM's Chevrolet "bow tie"). Which is more important to note that Geo entirely existed because GM realized it had entirely forgot how to make smaller cars and begged Toyota to teach it its ways, years after Honda and Toyota were winning hearts and minds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#115

Post by johnea »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #26
foobarian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should be safe to allow imports then, right? Since nobody but me would buy one. :-)

I am attempting to import the Seagull currently (experience the pain, see if and how to scale, how to avoid tariff mechanisms, etc), intend to report back with findings. https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

Can you import from Mexico instead of directly from China? Would this help overcome the tariffs/other obstacles?

Although this article was previously linked on HN, regarding importing 4 wheel loaders directly from China:

https://electrek.co/2023/11/30/i-bought-container-full-of-el...

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#116

Post by oakesm9 »

michaelmrose wrote: post #96
iambateman wrote: post #39

"The Chinese government wants to wipe out American automakers by introducing competitively priced cars" is a PR scare tactic. It's exactly what I would say if I were a PR person trying to figure out how to protect my company's interests. Cars are imported from all over the world, and so long as they meet American safety standards, I think they should be. Also if I could buy a safe, new EV for $10,000, no matter how s…

Historically cheap Chinese cars have done VERY poorly in crash tests. for 10K its probably a piece of plastic which folds killing the user in every crash over 35 mph. It's hard to dig up exact figures. It looks like China has around 500M drivers averaging 10,000 vehicle miles each and annual traffic fatalities of 250,000. This suggests the death rate per billion vehicle miles is about 13 in the US and about 50 in Chi…

In terms of saftey ratings, BYD do very well in the Euro NCAP ratings. 5/5 for all their cars in the European market, including the small Dolphin car[0]. This doesn't include the Seagull though as they don't sell it in Europe yet.

[0] https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/dolphin/50011

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#117

Post by [deleted] »

oakesm9 wrote: post #116
michaelmrose wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically cheap Chinese cars have done VERY poorly in crash tests. for 10K its probably a piece of plastic which folds killing the user in every crash over 35 mph. It's hard to dig up exact figures. It looks like China has around 500M drivers averaging 10,000 vehicle miles each and annual traffic fatalities of 250,000. This suggests the death rate per billion vehicle miles is about 13 in the US and about 50 in Chi…

In terms of saftey ratings, BYD do very well in the Euro NCAP ratings. 5/5 for all their cars in the European market, including the small Dolphin car[0]. This doesn't include the Seagull though as they don't sell it in Europe yet. [0] https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/dolphin/50011

[deleted]

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#118

Post by rsynnott »

cityofdelusion wrote: post #79
devmor wrote: post #10

I hope so. The price of EVs in the US market is ludicrously overinflated. It's understandable for new startups like Rivian, Lucid and co, but in the case of existing auto manufacturers, early adopters are subsidizing the cost of redeveloping tooling that should have been easily covered by nearly a century of profit leeched away by shareholders. GM, Ford and Stellantis should have been able to produce a sub-$20k EV by…

Sub $20k is not realistic in 2024. Even barebones ICE cars without AC and with everything cheap plastic start higher and return no margin. The last car that was widely available below $20,000 was the manual, no-ac Honda civic from the widely panned post-housing bubble model generation. Mitsubishi also sold a widely panned barebones model, their Mirage, that sold poorly. Cheap cars with no margin is a suckers bet. The…

The Dacia Spring costs about 20k EUR before EV grants. Now, granted, it's a basic car, but it seems to be doable.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#119

Post by Ferret7446 »

gizmo wrote: post #66

To all those who dismiss the Seagull because it's small and cheap, remember one thing: making inexpensive cars is much, much, harder than making luxury cars. The lower your gross margins the fewer mistakes you can make. It's a miracle of manufacturing that cars can be made at this price point at all (yes, there are subsidies but European and American carmakers get subsidized too). BYD, NIO and Xiaomi make luxury cars…

Based on the general track record of Chinese manufacturing QA and Chinese EV QA, they can make a lot of mistakes just fine.
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