Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#551

Post by Mainan_Tagonist » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:17 PM UTC

ljm wrote: post #416

lvoudour wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An excellent point. Abstention = social isolation, which for young people is far worse than exposure. Restricting your children's access is not an option (lets' be real, they'll find a way to circumvent your efforts anyway) and moving the burden of restriction from society to individuals is not fair. So as a society do we let unrestrained exposure or do we take collective action? I lean on the second option, but I'm…

Overall, I think the internet has basically been weaponised (intentionally or not) by big tech. People of every generation are being manipulated at a scale that has never before been possible, and what’s more is that the algorithms for targeting and engagement make it trivial to do this, either through propaganda, disinformation, or advertising in a way that skirts regulations on traditional media. Will it change? I…

The term "Too Big To Fail" is probably inappropriate here (was it ever appropriate actually? banks should have been allowed to fail in 2008), indeed Facebook may well be replaced at some point (is Gen Z even on Facebook?), and AI might well replace Google's killer product: its search engine.

This said, I tend to agree with you, the power law exists and has to be maintained by big tech to control the content because a captive audience is soooo profitable.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#552

Post by miki123211 » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:17 PM UTC

isodev wrote: post #410

gitaarik wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course people think of solving this problem again by constraining the consumer, instead of the producer. What we should do is make rules for social media platforms to disallow them to develop algorithms that make people addicted. You might think how do you define that, but the companies have already made a whole science out of it so it's not that abstract anymore. It would sure be an elaborate task and will surely…

Absolutely this. It’s not about banning content - to a certain extend parents are responsible for what their kid has access to. In many cases proper education allows kids to self regulate and consume “adult” content appropriately with no harm. Unfortunately that’s not possible everywhere as many countries lack the resources and/or mentality to achieve this. Regardless, dangerous content and services (just like danger…

The internet makes this really hard to enforce.

To sell drugs, cigarettes, alcohol etc, you need somebody to do the selling, and that person needs to be located wherever your customers are. If you break that place's laws, well, they probably have police who can put you in jail.

Social media is different, you can run a social media website targeted at Americans without ever stepping foot in the US, having a server in the US, having a business entity in the US etc. It's just some random Russian website, following Russian but not American laws, that some Americans like to visit. Sure, the US can try playing the cat-and-mouse game with you and force ISPs to block your site and all VPNs, proxies and TOR nodes that might presumably give customers access to it, but that's still a game one needs to play, and playing it isn't without consequences for the privacy and freedom of others, consequences most democratic governments aren't willing to bear.

Even if the government wins and somehow manages to block you completely, or put enough obstacles in your path that doing further business doesn't make sense, you still don't lose. You don't go to jail or face legal action, you just quit and focus on other countries instead.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#553

Post by AtlasBarfed » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:18 PM UTC

worldsayshi wrote: post #495

randomdata wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She doesn't share her actual thoughts That's where social media has been most damaging. You can't share your thoughts anymore. The 'Redditization' of the world means that sharing thoughts is met with hostility. No longer can you just throw something out there, no matter how stupid. These days you have carry an entire encyclopedia with you in order to back up every last thing you say and if you utter anything that i…

This is touching on something very important but I feel there's a lot more to it. There's a lot of mystery around this for me. Like why is social media inspiring us to such hostile nit picking on behaviour and ideals?

Because it is INTRUSIVE.

The advertising industry is fundamentally about intruding into your lives, and by that measure, the % of attention it can command.

The advertising industry (which is social media is that isn't colossally obvious) has relentlessly pursued increasing this percentage, and the smartphone was the physical means to achieve it, and newfound social addiction feedback loops the nitro turbo boost.

Even modern/new humans can't adapt to this. Older minds are crumbling into echo chambers, or withdrawing entirely. Paranoia takes hold.

Or is it paranoia? Or are your every move, thought, and action collected and categorized into a profile which is currently used simply for "advertising optimization", while in China it produces a worse-than-1984 dystopian system, and likely there are population profiling projects in US three letter agencies?

My internet profile is set in stone from my 20 years. Nothing I can do about it now. I'm purgeworthy whenever the totalitarianism grips the USA. Elections are becoming existential now, and that likely isn't paranoia.

While I've given a rational probability to all this, most people do not, they respond emotionally, especially to relentless stress and burden of processing unending perpetual advertising.

And as we all know, here comes the AI.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#554

Post by Mainan_Tagonist » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:19 PM UTC

zigman1 wrote: post #192

jajko wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dont have kids, do you. Seeing them being pushed out of entire school community due to higher principles is heartbreaking to say at least, this is place from which teen suicides come from. Parents usually cave in the pressure. I would go and even claim I would ban all current social media platforms below 18. Ther are simply not enough protections, consistently, its place ripe for abuse and tons abuse is happening…

> I would ban all current social media platforms below 18 Just like porn? Do you think kids would find a way around it?

some would, obviously, but only those that really wanted to, just as some end up buying cigarettes or alcohol.

But that would be a fraction of what it is now

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#555

Post by almostnormal » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:19 PM UTC

willvarfar wrote: post #154

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

US citizens have the right to free speech. US companies have a qualified right to free speech https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment1/freedom-of-speec... How about AI? If it is an algorithm that is talking to you, does it have the right to do all the things that are protected by 'free speech'? And does it matter if the AI is commercial, or a home hobby project effort?

> US companies have a qualified right to free speech

There doesn't even seem to be much speech of the companies running the platforms on their own platforms. All they do is quote their users.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#556

Post by throwaway458864 » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:20 PM UTC

The big mental illness crisis of the 21st century is really the same one from the 20th: mass media consumerism. Social media is literally just mass media consumerism in a more efficient, evolved form. It's the car compared to the bicycle: more advanced, with more bad outcomes than before. If you want to cure social media mental illness you'll have to wrestle with the fundamental addiction all humans now have to mass media, which has a symbiotic relationship with consumerism. Since the global economy depends on consumerism, it's not going to be easy to dismantle.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#557

Post by swader999 » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:21 PM UTC

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

This is where you use your tech skills to break her addiction. Degrade her social media queries randomly. Mess up the dopamine rewards. Maybe a pihole add on or something like that?

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#558

Post by silverquiet » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:24 PM UTC

m_fayer wrote: post #548

lynx23 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is the parents responsibility to set boundaries for their children. It can be complicated at times, granted. But that doesn't make it less of their job. Heck, I got my first CD player with 14. Yes, I felt left out at school, but... guess what, I didn't die. Children need to learn that there are rules, and someone else dictates them. Throwing tantrums is a typical reaction that needs to be weeded out as a p…

As we make parenting harder and harder in lots of creative and sadistic ways, more and more people are taking your advice. That’s got its own problems, it turns out.

> The recent proliferation of studies examining cross-national variation in the association between parenthood and happiness reveal accumulating evidence of lower levels of happiness among parents than nonparents in most advanced industrialized societies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5222535/

I never saw myself as capable of withstanding the stress of parenting and so I never even really thought about having kids. I thought I was a far outlier, but, given trends in fertility, I think I may have just been early in realizing this.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#559

Post by michaelt » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:25 PM UTC

planede wrote: post #316

maxioatic wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was about table saws, not circular saws. There’s a big difference between the two. Table saw accidents often result in losing fingers and it’s not that difficult to mess up while using one. There’s a well known, proven, easy solution to table saw accidents called SawStop. It’s basically as obvious to use as a seat belt is if you want to be safe. The only problem is those table saws are very expensive. Social media…

Isn't SawStop patent encumbered? AFAIK the three point seat belt design's patent was made open by Volvo at the time, so the patent didn't hold back adoption.

Yes - in fact the whole company was started by a patent attorney.

SawStop says they'll release one patent (which is about to expire anyway) but they've got a huge portfolio of other ones, and companies like Grizzly say that SawStop is unwilling to engage with them in good faith on licensing their technology.

Bosch released a saw with similar tech, except unlike SawStop it didn't use overpriced consumables every time it triggered. SawStop sued the product off of the market.

The company founder also serves as an expert witness when people shove their hands into moving saw blades, then sue the saw makers - testifying that the makers should be held liable because they haven't licensed his invention.

Of course, I'm sure for SawStop getting all their competitors banned will be a highly profitable decision; it's no surprise they're lobbying for it.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#560

Post by verisimi » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 12:25 PM UTC

xattt wrote: post #536

verisimi wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are broken. Perhaps they always were. Perhaps this latest, is the cost of prioritising work over family - it is now common to have both parents working, with child care outsourced to professionals, that may do everything right, but will not love the child. Love is underrated, intangible. I suspect there are very few whole individuals out there at all. Once the child grows, why would it look to family to help?…

> People are broken. Perhaps they always were. There’s an unspoken burden of past Child Traumatic Stress that, consciously and subconsciously, tints individuals’ resilience and the way the now-adults view the world. I’ve been fortunate to have a happy, normal childhood. However, based on the number of people that I’ve spoken to, I’m starting to think I am in the minority. Friends have casually talked about facing sui…

Yep. This is exactly how is see it. I don't think people realise the level of love required to grow a human. Whatever is received is that person's normal - what else could it be? But, I don't think all childhoods are equal, despite appearances.