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Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

afterbabel.com

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Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you don't like these products and feel they are negative, then don't use them It's really not that simple. The products have become so widespread and influential that they change the very culture of our society for the worse. It doesn't matter whether you abstain from using Instagram or not, some of your friends will still be more or less subtly influenced by its existence in your social interactions. There's a…

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. I for one deleted all of those platforms and my life is definitely better (I'm way less distracted for once, but the list is longer). What do I care what others do?

If you have children or niblings, you’ll realize how ostracized from the community one gets if they have no access to social media. It would work if parents banded together and nobody in school would get access, but otherwise it just becomes a “there’s a giant club and you’re not a part of it”. As a child, that really hurts.

When I was in high school, Facebook was just opening up access to everyone. I remember literally everyone getting on it, and swapping between messages in MSN, and some posts on FB. We had whole school wide conversations, planning and etc. on social media, and on days when I didn’t get in front of the computer to check things, I remember feeling left out. It’s just so much worse now, because every kid expects every other kid to be on the loop of things 24/7. I think that’s where we screwed up. Having just casual access without mobile phones was the sweet spot, in my opinion.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#312

> I think it is a very good thing that alarms were rung about teen smoking, teen pregnancy, drunk driving, and the exposure of children to sex and violence on TV Excuse me? I remember sitting thru Nancy Reagan’s “good morals” which were mandated to be in kids shoes, abstinence only sex education, DARE, and the ridiculousness of not being able to buy a music album with songs they played on the radio. Teen pregnancy pe…

what pregnancy & violence has to do with mental disease? sure some correlation but it's not the staple in many cases... depression & suicide among kids/teens ARE increasing over time. now if that's ONLY because social media is another mild take, too

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414751/

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny .. earlier today there was a front page HN post about the federal government mandating safer circular saws. It seemed like the majority of users in the thread were in favor of the federal government mandating technology changes to prevent harm from being done to the population. Now for this issue, there's harm being done to children, and the majority of users in the thread seem to be against government int…

It was about table saws, not circular saws. There’s a big difference between the two. Table saw accidents often result in losing fingers and it’s not that difficult to mess up while using one. There’s a well known, proven, easy solution to table saw accidents called SawStop. It’s basically as obvious to use as a seat belt is if you want to be safe. The only problem is those table saws are very expensive. Social media…

So, if there's not an easy solution, we should de-emphasize the problem?

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#314
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain has some flaws that are very hard to overcome. Addictions are some of them. There's a reason almost every country in the world regulates and restricts gambling.

>The brain has some flaws that are very hard to overcome. Addictions are some of them. The majority of people don't feel victim to addiction, it's a minority of people who are prone to it. Everyone shouldn't have their freedoms restricted just to cater to the more weak-minded.

A popular position perhaps, which is why you can still go gambling while 'weak-minded' children cannot.

Personally, I hope we come to protect the vulnerable regardless of their age.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#315

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

There are two kinds of freedom [0].

What we are missing in our society today is some essential negative freedoms.

Most of us follow J.S. Mill's idea on restricting the influence of the state. See the many comments in this thread decrying government intervention to ban social media. That's a negative freedom, from tyranny.

Mostly, we tend to emphasise positive freedoms, freedom to; run a business, share speech, own technology. And that is good.

But there are negative freedoms, freedom from; coercion, the scourge of drugs, poverty, censorship. Obviously many positive freedoms can be expressed as negative ones, but how that logic is formulated in law really matters.

Now the controversial bit:

What we are missing is laws that give people freedom from technology The supposed "choice" to participate is not enough.

Like others here I've been a non participant in social media and smartphones. I'm not a Luddite, I'm a computer scientist, but I twigged this problem very early having dealt with addiction and recognising how abuse is mediated by technology. I even wrote a book about it [1].

The problem is, life is made very difficult for those who want to exercise choice. Presently one must live as a second class citizen, in what feels like racism and prejudice of technological snobbery. It is utterly unnecessary.

Governments do not need to ban smartphones or social media for kids or for anyone. Making this only about kids is a cop-out. It's leveraging emotional messaging to side-step a bigger problem nobody wants to face - that our whole society is under siege from technology overuse. The more general problem is that we've entered a period of technological over-reach. Kids don't just feel peer pressure to get a smartphone and social media, they live in a society that wants to mandate it.

Whether for kids or adults, we need to strongly protect the rights of those who want a less technologically mediated (and encumbered - yes it's not all "convenience") lifestyle. This needs us to maintain plurality of access;

   No services for government, schools, health available *only* on
   proprietary and "smart" platforms. Requirement to maintain
   traditional paper and interpersonal modes.

   End the insanity of a "cashless society", and "smart societies"
   that exclude basic human interaction and require and assume
   smartphones with apps.

   Strongly protect the rights of parents to choose how their kids use
   technology, for example in schools, and the attitudes they are
   raised with.
Governments can ensure negative freedoms without just banning stuff.

[0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative...

[1] https://digitalvegan.net/

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny .. earlier today there was a front page HN post about the federal government mandating safer circular saws. It seemed like the majority of users in the thread were in favor of the federal government mandating technology changes to prevent harm from being done to the population. Now for this issue, there's harm being done to children, and the majority of users in the thread seem to be against government int…

It was about table saws, not circular saws. There’s a big difference between the two. Table saw accidents often result in losing fingers and it’s not that difficult to mess up while using one. There’s a well known, proven, easy solution to table saw accidents called SawStop. It’s basically as obvious to use as a seat belt is if you want to be safe. The only problem is those table saws are very expensive. Social media…

Isn't SawStop patent encumbered? AFAIK the three point seat belt design's patent was made open by Volvo at the time, so the patent didn't hold back adoption.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#317

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

  > Restrict your children'ss access to these platforms.
I'm the only parent I know that has. And there is much resentment.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#318

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

> if you don't like these products and feel they are negative, then don't use them It's really not that simple. The products have become so widespread and influential that they change the very culture of our society for the worse. It doesn't matter whether you abstain from using Instagram or not, some of your friends will still be more or less subtly influenced by its existence in your social interactions. There's a…

> It doesn't matter whether you abstain from using Instagram or not

Yep. The other problem is that not having social media and mobile devices can be alienating and ostracizing, especially for teenagers.

Avoiding the problems of social media requires skills and restraint that even most adults don’t have.

It is a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. I for one deleted all of those platforms and my life is definitely better (I'm way less distracted for once, but the list is longer). What do I care what others do?

> What do I care what others do? I’ve done the same, but it’s not without cost: - Two hobbies I’m involved with have large local communities on Facebook. I’m not in the loop, and sometimes miss out on events and catchups. - I’m not on Twitter, and there’s a massive amount of chat about my field (realtime collaborative editing & local first software) that takes place there. I miss out on what’s going on, and I’m relia…

You can join those communities and discussions with "work" accounts. Instead of creating a personal twitter or meta account, you could create one that is only used to join those specific groups and discussion.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, India, these platforms are used less for free speech and more for brainwashing and spreading hate and misinformation. Most of these posts are in Hindi, a major language around here, and call for all kinds of hate such as suppression of a specific religion, call for genocide, invading and acquiring neighboring countries etc. I've tried reporting such posts multiple times but hate filled posts are neithe…

How is this example any different than what the parent has said? If people feel these platforms are negatively impacting them, they should stop using them. Or do you believe others or the government has a right to disallow what people want to watch via their own choices? You may call it brainwashing but others may disagree.

> If people feel these platforms are negatively impacting them, they should stop using them.

The problem is how to stop the mob attacking you from using them.

An American equivalent might be if social media existed a 100 years ago and was being used to encourage lynchings. Yes, it really is that bad in some places.

The problem is that FB does moderate things relevant to the US but ignores the rest of the world. They will remove white supremacist material in the US, but not the equivalent elsewhere.

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