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Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

afterbabel.com

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Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you don't like these products and feel they are negative, then don't use them It's really not that simple. The products have become so widespread and influential that they change the very culture of our society for the worse. It doesn't matter whether you abstain from using Instagram or not, some of your friends will still be more or less subtly influenced by its existence in your social interactions. There's a…

And then there are also those companies/institutions/orgs/news/shops that make you left behind from otherwise useful information or services by not being on social media platforms.

This is a real everyday pain that anyone with social media accounts can’t fathom.

Most (like 90%) businesses don’t have a website or when they have, it’s a static website. All the news are on social medias behind nag screens.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you don't like these products and feel they are negative, then don't use them It's really not that simple. The products have become so widespread and influential that they change the very culture of our society for the worse. It doesn't matter whether you abstain from using Instagram or not, some of your friends will still be more or less subtly influenced by its existence in your social interactions. There's a…

And then there are also those companies/institutions/orgs/news/shops that make you left behind from otherwise useful information or services by not being on social media platforms.

And then there's Therapist who keep saying everyone should be in therapy and drug companies with the latest in psychopharmacology.

Histeria (and the virbrator), ice pick lobotomies, electro shock therapy, Quaalude, Benzodiazepines (valium) as mothers little helpers, MAOI's, SRRI's (PSSD), Benzodiazepines again (Xanax, klonipin). And for good measure a few variations of adrenal Ritalin and other methamphetamines.

Maybe, just maybe, and hear me out on this, we have more people with mental health issues because "self diagnosis" and "self identifications" can get you a prescription. Maybe, just maybe more people have mental health issues because there is a whole fucking industry designed to profit off of problems that have a "diagnostic criteria" and not a "test". Maybe just maybe we should remember that the "reproducibility crisis" has some of its worst offenders in psychiatry and psychology.

Or you know blame social media, like we did for books, radio, tv, Elvis and rock, rap and metal, video games, 4chan and now....

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#323
post #243

> girls who spend five hours or more on social media per day are three times as likely to be depressed as girls who use social media only a little or not at all I mean, I can't possibly imagine the state I would be in if I spent 5 hours on Instagram every day for extended periods. But the same applies to watching reality TV or reading tabloid newspapers. Social media clearly affects young people — some of them negati…

I view it the same way. It's evolution. How it plays out is usually too complex to understand. Trying to avoid making decision for yourself (because everyone is different), by making it explicit for all people, is just running away.

Also whatever we have now, a worse thing is coming yet. Or at least, a newer stranger one.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#324

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

In my country, India, these platforms are used less for free speech and more for brainwashing and spreading hate and misinformation. Most of these posts are in Hindi, a major language around here, and call for all kinds of hate such as suppression of a specific religion, call for genocide, invading and acquiring neighboring countries etc. I've tried reporting such posts multiple times but hate filled posts are neithe…

I have seen some of the same with Sri Lankan posts. Loathsome stuff in Sinhala. Not calling for genocide, but definitely encouraging persecution and bigotry. One group that was particularly poisonous was removed after a campaign by many people. One person complaining gets nowhere. I am sure there is more similar material elsewhere.

I think the underlying issue is that American companies view everything through the lens of American culture and if its not a problem in the US, then it is not offensive.

I once reported a racist comment on FB. Someone said that people of their race should not "interbreed" with people of another race because the latter are evil. FB said it did not violate their community standards.

IMO it was probably because it was a comment by a black person (probably American) about white people. That is not the major problem is the US so its fine.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#325

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

>Restricting the right to free speech does have negative consequences

sure, but not everywhere is America and some places seem to manage without slippery-sloping to eternal damnation.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#326
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. I for one deleted all of those platforms and my life is definitely better (I'm way less distracted for once, but the list is longer). What do I care what others do?

If you have children or niblings, you’ll realize how ostracized from the community one gets if they have no access to social media. It would work if parents banded together and nobody in school would get access, but otherwise it just becomes a “there’s a giant club and you’re not a part of it”. As a child, that really hurts. When I was in high school, Facebook was just opening up access to everyone. I remember litera…

But why do you make it sound like it’s not an option to teach kids to not have fear of missing out and having meaningful ways of spending their time in the real, offline world? I guarantee you that there is nothing of value that other teens are saying that your own children need to be updated 24/7

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#327

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

It's funny .. earlier today there was a front page HN post about the federal government mandating safer circular saws. It seemed like the majority of users in the thread were in favor of the federal government mandating technology changes to prevent harm from being done to the population. Now for this issue, there's harm being done to children, and the majority of users in the thread seem to be against government int…

This is a silly comparison. The table saw was not designed to be addictive, turn its users into a highly lucrative commodity, or push algorithmically driven agendas. Social media was. The dangers being compared here are very different.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#328
post #82

When we was teenagers we had unrestricted broadband access to the internet but what was missing was the constant comparison hellhole like Instagram that is causing mental illness. WaReZ, KaZaA, Ogrish, CD-Keys, drugs, weapon making tutorials, Mail-order-drugs. This was the wild west days of the internet. You could literally put up anything you could sell anything and everything. Classmates were downloading roms, porn…

> the constant comparison hellhole like Instagram that is causing mental illness. Anecdotally, Instagram ranks much lower than Reddit for causing problems among the young kids I’ve worked with. Reddit is an absolutely cesspool of misinformation, fake stories, propaganda, and rampant doomerism. Scrolling Instagram can’t hold a candle to the militant doomerism that seethes from sites like Reddit. I think it’s an uncomf…

> Anecdotally, Instagram ranks much lower than Reddit for causing problems among the young kids I’ve worked with.

It's hard to tease out causality because Reddit overuse would have more self-selection of kids with preexisting depression. Happy kids would see no reason to doomscroll Reddit.

Instagram on the other hand is more compelling to everyone, and what you might interpret as positive content could be interpreted by a teen as being excluded by the popular kids yet again, with no easy way to opt out because unlike Reddit everyone at your school uses the platform and expects you to be on it.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you don't like these products and feel they are negative, then don't use them It's really not that simple. The products have become so widespread and influential that they change the very culture of our society for the worse. It doesn't matter whether you abstain from using Instagram or not, some of your friends will still be more or less subtly influenced by its existence in your social interactions. There's a…

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. I for one deleted all of those platforms and my life is definitely better (I'm way less distracted for once, but the list is longer). What do I care what others do?

> What do I care what others do?

example from real life:

My local musicians community decided to use only FB to communicate their gigs dates. I refuse to use FB. I no longer know when or where is the gig. I don't see my fellows anymore.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#330

It's surprising how many parents I know who are in denial about this. It must be because they themselves are constantly using social media and don't want to accept what it is doing to their own mental health.

I'm not a parent and hardly use social media (well, except HN!), but I am still willing to deny this, because Haidt has never properly addressed the serious demolition of his work presented by Aaron Brown. Have we all forgotten how weak and FP prone social studies are?

To Haidt's credit he did at least try a rebuttal, which is better than most situations in modern academia where outside criticisms are just ignored entirely. But he lost that debate because his responses were bad, and in this article he doubles down on the bad arguments he made last time.

He attempts to suggest that the large number of studies he collected with Twenge means there must be something there. This argument fails because when Brown randomly spot checked some of his cited studies they were all of garbage quality. Often they had nothing to do with social media at all. Haidt's response was the same as in this article: they can't all be wrong! But yes, yes they can all be wrong and Brown has strongly shown that this is likely to be the case.

Then Haidt suggests that you can derive signal from a large pile of bad studies, because if the null hypothesis were true then you'd see random results. But you can't assume that due to publishing biases, spurious correlations and other problems. For example he says that if social media didn't affect mental health, then there'd be no gender signal. That doesn't make sense. It's possible for girls to have worse mental health, and spend more time on social media, and for social media to not be the cause.

After making spurious correlation/causation arguments and denying he's doing so, he moves on to an even worse problem making his entire theory is unfalsifiable:

> much of my book is about the collective action traps that entire communities of adolescents fall into when they move their social lives onto these platforms, such that it becomes costly to abstain. It is at that point that collective mental health declines most sharply, and the individuals who try to quit find that they are socially isolated. The skeptics do not consider the ways that these network or group-level effects may obscure individual-level effects, and may be much larger than the individual-level effects.

In other words you can't even attempt to establish causality by cutting out social media use and seeing if it affects depression, because he will just immediately change his claim to assert that it was the ambient social-media-ness of society causing the depression (a much harder hypothesis to prove), and thus individual interventions can't help. And because this hypothesis is so vague, he can always fall back to claiming that whatever group intervention size is tried it wasn't big enough.

His whole essay is full of problems like this. It's basically a Gish Gallop. Vast reams of unusable paper is presented, along with panicked assertions that it's unreasonable to request valid evidence or a testable hypothesis before making law, due to the nature of the (self declared) emergency: a classic circular argument of the sort that emerges way too often in public health spheres.

There's actually a better supported alternative line of work that shows a completely different and much stronger correlation related to political ideology. But of course Haidt would rather not discuss that, as it's not amenable to legislation.

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