How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain • Hacker News Board

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#351

Post by farbklang » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 3:44 AM UTC

blablabla123 wrote: post #55

awesomeMilou wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ("Insolvenzverschleppung" - the punishments are a little draconic) The concept of declaring bankruptcy is well known in most western jurisdiction, as is the criminal practice of delaying bankruptcy. Believe it or not, in most of the developed world you can't just have a company go tits up and expect to go out of there scot-free. > Durchgriffshaftung I've never heard of this concept before, but from what I can gathe…

I don't know the implications outside of Germany although looking in the Wikipedia article it sounds it's an especially big deal here. If I recall it correctly from a back then mandatory course I did about it, it can even happen for an unpaid parking bill on an empty account. I'd assume so but probably most legal matters are settled outside of courts. Also looking at it the other way around, it would be pretty silly…

A lot of companies do not want to deal with GbR / freelancers anymore as it quickly gets them on the hook for evading social security taxes (Scheinselbstständigkeit) - in my experience having a limited is helpful for landing projects with big corps

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#352

Post by j7ake » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 3:47 AM UTC

freyfogle wrote: post #180

nicbou wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest gripes, summed up: - The requirements are arbitrary, undocumented, and largely depend on how the case worker feels on a given day. Common wisdom is to bring far more documents than asked for, just in case. - Everything is paper-based. You are expected to act as a transport layer between offices that won't talk to each other. Everything is mailed, because digital communications are distrusted and digitalisa…

Oh for sure it could be much better in Germany, and I hope that rapidly becomes the case. Definitely digitization needs to come faster. My complaint is simply people imagining it is perfect elsewhere. Really that is not the case, no where is perfect. All the people chiming in about the US being so easy, yes, wonderful. Now let's talk about healthcare and how your health insurance is tied to your employer. Everyone wh…

Within Europe: Austria, Switzerland, UK, NL are better than Germany for bureaucracy. Brexit may be an issue for Europeans, but the system is now more fair for non Europeans who want to go to UK.

Outside Europe: Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore is better than Germany.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#353

Post by benced » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 3:50 AM UTC

yau8edq12i wrote: post #4

bouncing wrote: post #2

Not to brag, but there are so few things to actually feel some civic pride for in America, and business registration is one of them, so I guess we have that. I can get an IRS EIN (tax ID), register an LLC, obtain a sales tax license (only required for selling stuff), and open a business checking account in about 2 hours in Colorado. Someone who knows what they’re doing and doesn’t spend time researching banking optio…

Unless you're opening companies on a daily basis to evade taxes or whatever, I fail to see why you would need the process to be that fast. Because with such short delays, nobody will have actually checked anything, so the only winners are fraudsters, in the end.

I don’t like this mindset that just because an individual can see why something needs to be better, it shouldn’t be.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#354

Post by kalleboo » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 4:01 AM UTC

4ad wrote: post #189

nicbou wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that it is overdone. It's bad everywhere, and it's much worse in Berlin. If you've experienced anything like a modern bureaucracy, Germany is infuriatingly backwards. The article is painfully accurate down to the minute detail.

As bad as Germany is, it is better than average. Eastern Europe is harder, and Asia borders on impossible. Africa is literally impossible.

> Asia borders on impossible

Japanese bureaucracy has a bad rap, but it isn't that bad. There's still paperwork (not much has moved online) but the public servant staff are super helpful and guide you through things and are helpful when there is some blocker. Especially in the past 3-5 years there have big improvements with a lot of paperwork and stuff that required your personal seal has been removed, and the MyNumber card makes doing anything online very easy. I've never ever had to fax anything as people joke about (and a friend in Germany actually had to do)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#355

Post by chii » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 4:14 AM UTC

physhster wrote: post #240

callalex wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a USA perspective, I find that usually when a bureaucratic process is hopelessly broken, it is because a small portion of the population actively hates the people that would benefit from the process and want to harm them. However they cannot legally or popularly discriminate against them so instead they destroy the processes that benefit the hated group. Do you get that impression where you are too?

Given the amount of immigrants in Europe in general and in Germany in particular, I don't think they are trying to deter people. Or if they are trying it's not working. The incompetence is not confined to immigration, it's pretty much everywhere. Same goes for France actually.

i wonder how much of the "incompetence" is really just under-staffing, and how much is the public servants being paid to essentially do little/no work.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#356

Post by ffsm8 » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 4:19 AM UTC

chironjit wrote: post #188

nicbou wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine too! My residence permit expired in February, and my appointment is in July. I expect to have a valid residence title again by end of August. Mind you, I applied in December. I will not be able to travel out of the country for most of the summer as I wouldn't be allowed to reenter. They refused multiple times to issue the temporary permit that I'm legally entitled to. I'm having a lawyer ask again, this time wit…

I'll one up you and say that it's so broken, there are lots of people that basically live on ranges of exceptions. In my case, I was told I was not eligible for the visa I needed but when I spoke to a migration consultant who knew the process, they managed to get it done. I was pretty shocked as this wink, wink, nod, nod style system is not something I expected from this country.

Germany's head of state was involved in the biggest financial scandal of its existence and forgave a corrupt bank that stole millions of taxes just a few years before going into office.

corruption is spreading like a plague with no consequence in sight for anyone involved.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#357

Post by dkga » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 4:25 AM UTC

croes wrote: post #322

barbazoo wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In certain parts of Germany the German equivalent of "You really can't complain" is the highest form of praise.

The sentence "You really can't complain" is a complain itself.

Yes, never noted that!

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#358

Post by anovikov » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 4:25 AM UTC

What is the upside of opening a company there if you can incorporate in a EU country with much much lower taxation say Cyprus or, you have a EU citizenship and the company is in IT field, Malta, and pay just 5% tax (and 0% tax on dividends from it if you move there and become a tax resident)? It effectively means increasing your income 2x-2.4x depending on how high the revenue is, vs paying 30% profit tax and then on dividends, 45% personal income tax in Germany. While still enjoying all the same access to funding and open EU market as in Germany.

Another much closer and cheaper to run option is Hungary where company profit tax is 9% and personal income tax is 15%, still providing up to 2x higher net personal income on same revenue vs Germany.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Post by Hrun0 » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 4:25 AM UTC

zettabomb wrote: post #223

jeffrallen wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm European because of US healthcare, insecurity, inequality, bad food culture, urban planning, and danger from natural and man made disasters, quality and cost of education. Every single one of those things is better in my new European home.

A very good summary. There's also more Nazis in America than in Germany, and more far-right hatred in general.

Bold and utterly wrong statement

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#360

Post by lynx23 » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 4:33 AM UTC

Wow, I love this thread. Tons of expats talk to each other how bad the country they choose for living actually is. And on top of that, words like legally entitled fly by. If you don't like Germany (who is?) then move on. It was never a country particularily friendly to expats. Berlin might be different if you find your flock... Heck, I had friends from .at move to .de and totally fail to connect with people. Really, if you can move out again, go for it. But whining about the paperwork is pathetic.