Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

972mag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

931–940 of 1001 posts

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#931

Post by NomDePlum »

sethammons wrote: post #907
NomDePlum wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry. Guns do kill people. That's their whole point. I know roughly ~1000 people. Maybe 10 of them have the physical capability of killing someone, in case you don't know, it's not actually that easy to do it yourself. Of those not all could mentally do it under anything but the most extreme of circumstances. 2, maybe 3 might be actually capable of ending a life under extreme circumstances. With a gun probably, at a…

> I know roughly ~1000 people. Maybe 10 of them have the physical capability of killing someone, in case you don't know, it's not actually that easy to do it yourself. Do you primarily work with invalids or children? Heck, even children can kill, but it usually requires working together. I was reading the other day about a group of under 10yos that buried alive another kid in a village because he looked weird. Of eve…

I primarily work with people who have an issue with killing other people.

That, and that it is non-trivial without a gun, or more powerful weapon, to kill someone.

Which is why, in a lot of places it's extremely difficult to own or have a gun. And sane people consider very carefully a guns use. Most refuse to own or even consider even holding one never mind using one.

The AI discussed here is similar to me. It shouldn't be available or in use, ever. It even strips away the benefit a gun has of the user contemplating the end result.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#932

Post by GordonS »

ofiryanai wrote: post #837
smt88 wrote: post #21

I know many people won't read past the headline, but please try to. This is the second paragraph: "In addition to talking about their use of the AI system, called Lavender, the intelligence sources claim that Israeli military officials permitted large numbers of Palestinian civilians to be killed, particularly during the early weeks and months of the conflict."

They permitted larger numbers of civilians being killed in the pursuit of terrorist barbarics who raped and murdered and dragged babies with their mothers into underground dungeons, and praised themselves for that while hiding between civilians.

Please stop spreading nonsensical, thoroughly debunked claims such as rape.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#933

Post by GordonS »

tiahura wrote: post #166
arminiusreturns wrote: post #141

> “We were not interested in killing [Hamas] operatives only when they were in a military building or engaged in a military activity,” A., an intelligence officer, told +972 and Local Call. “On the contrary, the IDF bombed them in homes without hesitation, as a first option. It’s much easier to bomb a family’s home. The system is built to look for them in these situations.”

Watching i24 news is a little unsettling. They run bits with interrogators announcing how productive torture has been, and make jokes about how it would be much easier if lemons just gave up their juice without being squeezed.

I've seen a few clips on Twitter, and it's some of the most disgusting footage I've ever seen in my life - torture, murder and genocide made into light entertainment for Israelis. It's just... unspeakably vile.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#934

Post by GordonS »

tmnvix wrote: post #478

Given the total failure to achieve any of its stated objectives, has this use of AI benefited the IDF at all? I would argue that it's likely the only outcome it has had that directly relates to IDF objectives has probably been negative (i.e. the unintended killing of hostages). Sadly, I think that the continued use of this AI is supported because it is helping to provide cover for individuals involved in war crimes.…

I think they're real objectives are to murder as many Palestinians as possible, and to occupy the north of the Gaza strip. Why? Two reasons: oil & gas, and beach-front real estate. Israel has already dished out licenses to oil producers for fields in Palestinian waters, and the new "aid" pier the US is building for them is rather suspect.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#935

Post by genman »

dw_arthur wrote: post #14

Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants. The world should not forget this.

It doesn't matter if they used dumb or smart bombs to destroy the target. When their selected target entered the building then the whole building became the target by extension. Smart bomb would have equally destroyed the building. Important comparison between dumb and smart bomb is only the probability to hit the target (the building) and IDF used precise diving maneuvers with dumb bombs and avoided hitting high rises with dumb bombs, making the probabilities close. That is not the issue here.

The main crux of the story is the automated target acquisition and the policy to engage the target in civilian homes - there are intelligence errors and collateral damage.

The questions are: is the intelligence gathering and decision making ethical and is the accepted collateral damage ratio reasonable given the scale.

This is different from for example Russian strategy to target whole neighborhoods to inflict terror in the civilian population by indiscriminate killings.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#936

Post by oefrha »

ykonstant wrote: post #165
harimau777 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any consequence for inappropriate flagging?

Not in this instance, I assume. People flagging too much can result in shadowbanning, but perhaps the mods think that flagging posts that might host heated political-religious discussion is ok (even if they don't have such discussion, and even if they are on-topic for HN). I also don't think there is a way to complain about abusing flags other than emailing the mods; I have no clue about the effectiveness of this com…

I have emailed many time over the years. Got a response from dang every single time. Several accounts lost vouching privileges thanks to my emails, among other things — they were vouching clearly guidelines-breaking crap, I drew dang’s attention, and they were penalized. So, if you have a concern, just email.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#937

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #831
darkerside wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this meant to excuse the behavior of the Israeli military?

no, it's a reminder that there is more than one side to the story.

also I am fed up with this tendentious 'discussion' that only allows you to hear one side of the story and where everyone else is just flagged off. I should rather stay away from HN (anyway it is no longer what it used to be) Sayonara.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#938

Post by dartos »

cad31 wrote: post #899
dartos wrote: post #475

Don’t militaries use statistical models all the time? Is this any different?

do you have any examples of a military using a statistical model that names targets, which were then killed without any human vetting?

No, but tbf that stuff isn’t usually made public.

I can’t believe that this would be the very first instance of a statistics based method for finding potential targets.

Post reply on HN