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'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

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Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#291

Post by rozap »

rowanseymour wrote: post #34

As bad as this story makes the Israelis sound, it still reads like ass-covering to make it sound like they were at least trying to kill militants. It's been clear from the start that they've been targeting journalists, medical staff and anyone involved in aid distribution, with the goal of rendering life in Gaza impossible.

Yea this really seems like more of a weapon of propaganda directed at Israelis. If they didn't want people to know about it, we probably wouldn't know about it. The fact that we're talking about it is probably not an accident, and I guess the play here would be to convince Israelis that the army is technologically advanced and they know what they're doing, so don't question it. But AI or not they were going to commit genocide and violate every international humanitarian law on the book. But for the people that still believe the genocide is justified I think this probably improves the optics.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#292

Post by skilled »

I am more curious about the “compute” of an AI system like this. It must be extremely complicated to do real-time video feed auditing and classification of targets, etc.

How is this even possible to do without having the system make a lot of mistakes? As much AI talk there is on HN these days, I would have recalled an article that talks about this kind of military-grade capability.

Are there any resources I can look at, and maybe someone here can talk about it from experience.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#293

Post by ben_w »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #262
_a_a_a_ wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is very convenient to criticize it when you're not in it Israel 'criticised' Hamas for their monstrous attack six months ago, started a war over it. Perhaps you're saying Israel should have just accepted it? You know, perhaps this whole mess Israel is now involved in is a product of its own behaviour, and killing of loads more Palestinians is not likely to bring peace but further hate and evil.

3 downvotes in 16 minutes, well I never! (but oddly no other response)

Because you're arguing against a totemic representation with rhetoric rather than helpful points.

Also, weirdly, looks like you're arguing against both sides' totemic representations in this way, so you're going to annoy everyone.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#294

Post by resource_waste »

I'm probably pro-isreal because I'm a realpolitik American that wants America's best interest. (But I'm not strong either way)

Just watched someone get their post deleted for criticizing Israel's online PR/astroturfing.

Israel's ability to shape online discussion has left a bad taste in my mouth. Trust is insanely low, I think the US should get a real military base in Israel in exchange for our effort. If the US gets nothing for their support, I'd be disgusted.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#295

Post by bregma »

gryzzly wrote: post #284
prpl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the entire family and neighbors family. Sure would be convenient if Hamas is 6% of the population

convenient how, you mean?

The result would be plenty of fresh unoccupied land to settle on. Just a little bit of cleanup required.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#296

Post by pelorat »

prpl wrote: post #31
dw_arthur wrote: post #14

Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants. The world should not forget this.

So the entire family and neighbors family. Sure would be convenient if Hamas is 6% of the population

40% or something voted for them, and pretty sure all of those are considered targets now.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#298

Post by kjkjadksj »

Quanttek wrote: post #108

Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…

[flagged]

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#299

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

dw_arthur wrote: post #14

Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants. The world should not forget this.

The law of armed conflict acknowledges that civilian deaths are inevitable, and only prohibits attacks that are directed at civilians; rather than those which are directed at combatants with expected civilian casualties as collateral damage.

The legal question is whether the civilian casualties are proportional to the concrete military value of the target.

A question that's worth considering is whether, when considering proportionality, all civilians (as defined by law) are made equal in a moral sense.

For example, the category "civilian" includes munitions workers or those otherwise offering support to combatants on the one hand, and young children on the other. It also includes members of the civil population who are actually involved in hostilities without being a formal part of an armed force.

The law of armed conflict doesn't distinguish these; albeit that I think people might well distinguish, on a moral level, between casualties amongst young children, munitions workers, and informal combatants.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#300

Post by spxneo »

The most disturbing part for me (going beyond Israel/Palestine conflict) is that modern war is scary:

- Weaponized financial trojan horses like crypto

- Weaponized chemical warfare through addictions

- Drone swarm attacks in Ukraine

- AI social-media engineered outrage to change publics perception

- Impartial, jingoistic mainstream war propaganda

- Censorship and manipulation of neutral views as immoral

- Weaponized AI software

Looks like a major escalation towards a total war of sorts.

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