I'm reminded of [1] a recent Palantir promotional video
'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
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Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#122AI generated kill lists are sadly inevitable. Had hoped we'd get a few more years before we'd actually see it being deployed. Lots to think about here
I don't know about kill lists, but AI weapons kinda make sense. No weapons are nice, but if the good guys don't develop AI weapons, the bad guys will. From what I gather, many US engineers are morally opposed to them. But if China develops them and gets into a war with the US, will Americans be happy to lose knowing that they have the moral high ground?
Right, just like if the good guys don't develop a novel coronavirus in a lab, the bad guys will and unleash it on the world!
Development of tools of death is not a good guy/bad guy thing. The "bad guys" think the "good guys" are bad.
I think "killing" is bad, no matter who develops the tools.
Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#123HN has a serious problem if factual technology stories cannot exist here because some people don't like the truth.
This should be advertised. The true price of AI is people using computers to make decisions no decent person would. It's not a feature, it's a war crime.
Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#124The Guardian has this story on the front page also, they were given details about it pre-publishing, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai... And, personally, I think that stories like this are of public interest - while I won’t ask for it directly, I hope the flag is removed and the discussion can happen.
Pretty disappointing that Guardian article also got quickly flagged after HN submission
Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#125Already deleted, that was quick. If we can’t trust AI to drive a car, how the hell can we trust it to pick who lives and who dies?
That's a valid point, but a terrible example because AI cars are legal in many places.
And they are illegal [in many places] because we haven't had the right conversations. We need to codify solutions to the trolley problem so decisions in bad circumstances align with what we expect.
Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#126@dang Please consider that this is an important and well sourced article regarding military use of AI and machine learning and shouldn't disappear because some users find it upsetting.
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I would like to know if the AI is deciding to starve the entire population and kill aid workers?
It’s a serious question, because the article mentions how AI plays such a crucial role… but where does it end?
I know the following question sounds absurd, but they say there’s no such thing as a silly question…
Does the AI use regular power to run, or does it run on the tears and blood of combatant 3 year old children - I mean terrorists?
Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
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If you define genocide as collateral damage every defensive war would be classified as genocide. The Allies killed 65000 French civilians when liberating France from the Nazis. Are Americans guilty of genocide for liberating France?
Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#128Years ago, scholars (such as Didier Bigo) have already raised concerns about the targeting of individuals merely based on (indirect) association with a "terrorist" or "criminal". Originally used in the context of surveillance (see Snowden revelations), such systems would target anyone who would be e.g. less than 3-steps away from an identified individual, thereby removing any sense of due process or targeted surveill…
It's also interesting (and I guess typical for end-users of software) how quickly and easily something like this goes from "Here's a tool you can use as an information input when deciding who to target" to "I dunno, computer says these are the people we need to kill, let's get to it".
In the Guardian article, an IDF spokesperson says it exists and is only used as the former, and I'm sure that's what was intended and maybe even what the higher-ups think, but I suspect it's become the latter.
Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#129The Guardian has this story on the front page also, they were given details about it pre-publishing, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai... And, personally, I think that stories like this are of public interest - while I won’t ask for it directly, I hope the flag is removed and the discussion can happen.
Pretty disappointing that Guardian article also got quickly flagged after HN submission
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Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza
#130The difference between previously revealed 'Gospel' and this 'Lavender' is revealed here: > "The Lavender machine joins another AI system, “The Gospel,” about which information was revealed in a previous investigation by +972 and Local Call in November 2023, as well as in the Israeli military’s own publications. A fundamental difference between the two systems is in the definition of the target: whereas The Gospel ma…
The link between targeting - whether for advertisements or for death - is quite disturbing.
Both use personal metadata, and both can horribly get it wrong.