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Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

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Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#241

Post by randycupertino »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #204
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's one thing for the CEO of a large, profitable company to be flying private, but for a small, loss-making company, it feels off. The guy is already ultra-rich...he might as well pay for those flights himself to show solidarity with shareholders. But it's up to Canoo shareholders to decide that, not me.

He is effectively paying for these flights by buying Canoo stock. This whole structure is set up to allow him to maximize the tax efficiency of his compensation. The jet travel is realized as a business expense and offsets future potential profits at the company, he also avoids paying the ~60% (federal and state income tax, as well as payroll tax paid by employer) tax that you incur paying high wage w2 employees.

Interestingly, he also had a lawsuit at his prior company for excessive use of private jet use on personal travel:

https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/0...

> Aquila Commits Misappropriation Of Solera Assets And Resources

> After execution of the Separation Agreement and Omnibus Agreement, Solera confirmed that prior to his separation from the Company, Aquila had misappropriated Solera’s resources and money by fraudulently claiming that certain flight and hotel expenses were for Solera business, when in fact, Aquila incurred these expenses solely on personal, non-Solera business—including fundraising for his intended new investment venture.

> Specifically, Aquila used a private jet chartered by Solera (Gulfstream IV- SP-N910AF) solely for Aquila’s personal business, but nevertheless charged the flights to Solera, between November 2018 and May 2019—i.e., when Aquila was still Solera’s President and CEO. For example, Aquila had Solera pay over $700,000 for 45.8 hours of flight time for Aquila’s trips to, among other places, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Bulgaria, Qatar, Kuwait, and France, as well as thousands of dollars for certain hotel expenses associated with certain of these trips. These trips were not for Solera business. Aquila traveled for personal purposes, including in connection with his position as the Chairman of the Board of Sportradar and to fundraise for his new “Founders Select” venture.

> Solera is continuing to investigate Aquila’s pre-separation activities with respect to any further instances of fraud, theft, misappropriation, or other actions of Aquila giving rise to claims that are not released under the Separation Agreement.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#242

Post by spfzero »

TRDRVR wrote: post #163
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #26

If the reimbursements were solely for corporate travel, it might not be a concern. The CEO here sold his previous company for $6.5 billion [1], so he already owned the jet before starting Canoo. The company reimburses him for corporate travel on it. What's concerning is that Canoo is stacking big losses and living on the edge...it seems like excessive spending for a company that hasn't even made a dime of profit. But…

I think the real issue here is that a CEO who nobody has heard of and is doing a bad job running the company claims that he needs to fly private as a business expense. It's one think for Zuck or Tim Cook to claim that flying commercial would be dangerous and a waste of time, but the way that attitude has filtered down to very small companies is astounding (especially given the outsized negative impact private jet tra…

Maybe he's anticipating making a quick getaway?

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#243

Post by throwawaymaths »

pedalpete wrote: post #239
ricardobayes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please drop me a line if you know of any startup hiring for a 500k(ish) comp package.

You'll spend 50-100% more than comp on an employee in any year.

250k is still on the high end for a senior developer at a startup.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#244

Post by [deleted] »

woobar wrote: post #124
dgrin91 wrote: post #36

The headline is relatively clickbait-y. Its double their revenue because their revenue is basically 0. Their actual expenses are hundreds of millions, of which this 1.7 million is a drop in the bucket. Once their upfront expenses are paid they will (presumably) be making hundreds of millions/billions in revenue, which means this 1.7m is not particularly important. You can talk about standard complaints of CEOs with p…

CEOs get all kinds of compensation. Business jet travel, security, etc. This line item could be just tax optimization for this guy. I am not trying to defend him, he is getting paid a lot: "On May 5, 2023, the Board granted Mr. Aquila an award of 6,884,682 RSUs. These awards vest on May 5, 2024, subject to continuous service." [1] At current stock price it is ~$20M. Getting outraged about additional $1.7M that was ne…

[deleted]

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#245

Post by throwawaymaths »

woobar wrote: post #124
dgrin91 wrote: post #36

The headline is relatively clickbait-y. Its double their revenue because their revenue is basically 0. Their actual expenses are hundreds of millions, of which this 1.7 million is a drop in the bucket. Once their upfront expenses are paid they will (presumably) be making hundreds of millions/billions in revenue, which means this 1.7m is not particularly important. You can talk about standard complaints of CEOs with p…

CEOs get all kinds of compensation. Business jet travel, security, etc. This line item could be just tax optimization for this guy. I am not trying to defend him, he is getting paid a lot: "On May 5, 2023, the Board granted Mr. Aquila an award of 6,884,682 RSUs. These awards vest on May 5, 2024, subject to continuous service." [1] At current stock price it is ~$20M. Getting outraged about additional $1.7M that was ne…

Canoo did a 1:23 reverse split last month, so take that into account.... His comp in Rsus is probably shy of $1M

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#246

Post by hakfoo »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #234
TRDRVR wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real issue here is that a CEO who nobody has heard of and is doing a bad job running the company claims that he needs to fly private as a business expense. It's one think for Zuck or Tim Cook to claim that flying commercial would be dangerous and a waste of time, but the way that attitude has filtered down to very small companies is astounding (especially given the outsized negative impact private jet tra…

it's also sucky because we're in a rightfully very negative EV environment. Fisker Ocean sucks, Cybertruck is good? but rusting?, nobody buys the Lucid, Rivians are great but lose ~80k USD per unit for Rivian, BYD and Evergrande EV cars are filling up junkyards in china... Canoo is one of a few EV companies that on paper should make it. They have an order book that takes them to profitability. They have alpha vehicle…

I actually took a punt on them this week (280 shares), mostly because they're selling something so different from the rest of the market.

It seems like the mainstream American EV manufacturers are very blinkered-- bigger, heavier, longer range, more luxury. Those products might appeal to buyers in the US, Canada, maybe Australia, but for the rest of the world, you're going to have to compete with manufacturers like BYD.

I could see the Canoo product selling in a lot of markets that you'd never sell a Lucid Air or Rivian R1T in. Once they've got a stable base on fleet orders, I could see them acquiring a quirky street cred among consumers-- sort of like Volkswagens of the '60s and '70s.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#247

Post by ametrau »

malfist wrote: post #88
ametrau wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the actual story. It’s a bit boring though. The rest is bs clickbait.

A bit boring? Seems like straight up embezzlement.

I’m being droll. It’s not boring (to me and you) but is in their estimation vs the more grabby headline.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#248

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

TRDRVR wrote: post #163
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #26

If the reimbursements were solely for corporate travel, it might not be a concern. The CEO here sold his previous company for $6.5 billion [1], so he already owned the jet before starting Canoo. The company reimburses him for corporate travel on it. What's concerning is that Canoo is stacking big losses and living on the edge...it seems like excessive spending for a company that hasn't even made a dime of profit. But…

I think the real issue here is that a CEO who nobody has heard of and is doing a bad job running the company claims that he needs to fly private as a business expense. It's one think for Zuck or Tim Cook to claim that flying commercial would be dangerous and a waste of time, but the way that attitude has filtered down to very small companies is astounding (especially given the outsized negative impact private jet tra…

Let's dispense with the fiction that there is some "need" or "business reasons" for 99% of CEOs except a very small number of examples like you mentioned to fly private. They do it simply because they can. Private jets are probably the last frontier of conspicuous consumption, and small time CEOs flying private lets them feel big and important.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#249

Post by pedalpete »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #243
pedalpete wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll spend 50-100% more than comp on an employee in any year.

250k is still on the high end for a senior developer at a startup.

Yup, it's definitely on the high end, but not unheard of.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#250

Post by wsc981 »

diggan wrote: post #100
wsc981 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The whole COVID handling of New Zealand, Australia and Canada proved to me I wouldn't want to live in any of those countries. What countries are you now curious to live in, after seeing how they handled COVID?

I felt Thailand, where I live, handled it fine. I didn't feel like we got pressured here into getting the COVID vaccination and life could go on quite as normal for me as an unvaccinated person in our village (in the city it might have been different).

Though my girlfriend did get the COVID vaccination eventually, due to her being afraid of not being able to visit venues, restaurants and such. She regrets now that she got the COVID vaccination. We know of many people in our neighborhood who've gotten health issues related to the COVID vaccination (e.g. blood clotting, strokes, Guillain-Barré syndrome, etcetera).

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