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Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

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Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#201

Post by MangoCoffee »

flyingpenguin wrote: post #155
Solvency wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

I suspect, starting from the ground up is part of why people are so interested in these companies. The ICE car market is a massive market, which taking a part of required massive long term investment, and would result in you being relegated to just some minor side note. Even Toyota one of the longest biggest players is still seen as kinda "new" compared to BMW and VW, let alone hyundai which is basically a massive st…

I'm not even sure an EV car is the answer for "Green". I remember a Joe Rogan ep where he and his guest talk about the giant holes and bad mining condition in Africa because of the current EV rash to get materials for car battery.

EV cars seem to be the go-between for ICE and the real answer for Green.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#202

Post by bombcar »

sofixa wrote: post #185
bombcar wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because for a long time the ICE manufacturers were making half-hearted play attempts at EVs, and Tesla came in and made real EVs and had a huge stock play related to that. So now the ICEs are scrambling to catch up, and are doing so, but lots of money is flowing around hoping to be the next Tesla.

> Because for a long time the ICE manufacturers were making half-hearted play attempts at EVs, and Tesla came in and made real EVs and had a huge stock play related to that. And their sales were still dwarfed by legacy manufacturers, who then started paying attention and practically all of them have at least one EV model out there, often with new platforms/models being in the works.

I suspect most of these EV startups are trying for that TSLA bump, and don't really care much that TSLA is almost inevitably doomed to stagnant stock returns for decades now.

Meanwhile the legacy companies will keep moving slowly along and produce vehicles. Some will die, some will merge, some will have wild successes.

But it's much different than Google et al because cars actually cost about as much to make and sell as they do to buy.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#203

Post by FireBeyond »

astrange wrote: post #188
diggan wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole COVID handling of New Zealand, Australia and Canada proved to me I wouldn't want to live in any of those countries. What countries are you now curious to live in, after seeing how they handled COVID?

Japan, Korea and Taiwan had good results for minimal disruption.

All of those countries have societal norms that are vastly different with respect to illness.

Japanese people voluntarily, proactively wear masks when sick in public, for example.

Notwithstanding some of the later research about the efficacy of masks, there was a lot less those governments HAD to CHANGE to minimize disruption, because their populations were already not generally selfish about their needs versus those around them.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#204

Post by 0xB31B1B »

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #168
TRDRVR wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real issue here is that a CEO who nobody has heard of and is doing a bad job running the company claims that he needs to fly private as a business expense. It's one think for Zuck or Tim Cook to claim that flying commercial would be dangerous and a waste of time, but the way that attitude has filtered down to very small companies is astounding (especially given the outsized negative impact private jet tra…

I agree. It's one thing for the CEO of a large, profitable company to be flying private, but for a small, loss-making company, it feels off. The guy is already ultra-rich...he might as well pay for those flights himself to show solidarity with shareholders. But it's up to Canoo shareholders to decide that, not me.

He is effectively paying for these flights by buying Canoo stock. This whole structure is set up to allow him to maximize the tax efficiency of his compensation. The jet travel is realized as a business expense and offsets future potential profits at the company, he also avoids paying the ~60% (federal and state income tax, as well as payroll tax paid by employer) tax that you incur paying high wage w2 employees.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#205

Post by FireBeyond »

jeffbee wrote: post #164
diggan wrote: post #7

> Under a deal reached in November 2020, Canoo reimburses Aquila Family Ventures, an entity owned by the CEO (Tony Aquila), for use of an aircraft. In 2023, Canoo spent $1.7 million on this reimbursement — that’s double the amount of revenue it generated. Canoo paid Aquila Family Ventures $1.3 million in 2022 and $1.8 million in 2021 for use of the aircraft. I'm surprised there are any employees left at the company.…

This is no unheard of. I worked at a company where the CEO got an interest-free loan from the company to buy his own jet, then charged the company to use it. Of course that individual later pled guilty to a variety of federal crimes, so :shrug:

Adam Neumann comes to mind. Zero interest loan from WeWork to buy commercial properties, then lease them to WeWork.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#206

Post by blackhawkC17 »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #196
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solera sold risk management and asset protection software. A company with $1bn+ in annual sales [1] is a money-laundering operation? Hint - Most ultra-rich people make their money in boring industries you wouldn't even know about. 1- https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/delisted/SLH/solera-holdi...

Most of these businesses are actually fronts. They siphon money from Africa and other third world countries with poor laws and wash it with money from private equity firms.

With all due respect, this is rubbish. Private equity LPs are overwhelmingly local pension funds, institutional investors, and high net worth individuals.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#207

Post by [deleted] »

woobar wrote: post #124
dgrin91 wrote: post #36

The headline is relatively clickbait-y. Its double their revenue because their revenue is basically 0. Their actual expenses are hundreds of millions, of which this 1.7 million is a drop in the bucket. Once their upfront expenses are paid they will (presumably) be making hundreds of millions/billions in revenue, which means this 1.7m is not particularly important. You can talk about standard complaints of CEOs with p…

CEOs get all kinds of compensation. Business jet travel, security, etc. This line item could be just tax optimization for this guy. I am not trying to defend him, he is getting paid a lot: "On May 5, 2023, the Board granted Mr. Aquila an award of 6,884,682 RSUs. These awards vest on May 5, 2024, subject to continuous service." [1] At current stock price it is ~$20M. Getting outraged about additional $1.7M that was ne…

[deleted]

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#209

Post by happytiger »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #204
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's one thing for the CEO of a large, profitable company to be flying private, but for a small, loss-making company, it feels off. The guy is already ultra-rich...he might as well pay for those flights himself to show solidarity with shareholders. But it's up to Canoo shareholders to decide that, not me.

He is effectively paying for these flights by buying Canoo stock. This whole structure is set up to allow him to maximize the tax efficiency of his compensation. The jet travel is realized as a business expense and offsets future potential profits at the company, he also avoids paying the ~60% (federal and state income tax, as well as payroll tax paid by employer) tax that you incur paying high wage w2 employees.

Exactly. Strangely this is actually tax efficient for both parties.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#210

Post by yread »

bombcar wrote: post #176
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's one thing for the CEO of a large, profitable company to be flying private, but for a small, loss-making company, it feels off. The guy is already ultra-rich...he might as well pay for those flights himself to show solidarity with shareholders. But it's up to Canoo shareholders to decide that, not me.

The board chooses the CEO and his salary; if the board wants to give some of the salary in the form of jet reimbursements it's not really any concern beyond them and the shareholders.

It is a concern for the tax payers if company is paying it as expense and deducting it from taxes instead of paying it as (taxed) salary and him doing what he wants with his money. Don't you have rules what can be expensed in the US?
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