Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet • Hacker News Board

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#191

Post by astrange » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:32 PM UTC

evandale wrote: post #107

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a shell company used to dodge taxes, presumably? It's a holding company for the CEO's assets. Virtually everyone worth $10 million+ has one. When and why did people become so conspiratorial and see boogeymen in everything they don't grasp?

It's hasn't been a conspiracy theory since the Panama papers came out. Everyone is now aware of the extent rich people go to use tax havens and are rightfully upset. They make record profits, encourage irresponsible consumerism, and don't even pay their fair share for the damage they inflict upon the world. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/panama-paradise-pandora-pap... Furthermore there's a reason rich people flock…

California of all places doesn't have low taxes for wealthy people. Its tax system actually depends on wealthy people. (IPOs specifically)

It has low taxes for people who've lived there a long time.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#192

Post by bombcar » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:33 PM UTC

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #112

ryandrake wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of bad in our society can be explained by the fact that a lot of people seriously believe that some people are inherently better than others, and deserve to be at the top of the hierarchy, to follow different rules, to get more than one vote, that they are "elite" and should therefore get better treatment. Egalitarianism is not a universally held doctrine. I thought the downvotes were coming from people who did…

People aren't inherently better than others, but people are infinitely better at some things than others. Terrence Tao is inherently better at mathematics than I am, and I'd be a fool to claim otherwise. Torvalds is a much better programmer than I am. There are endless examples.

Exactly.

Now if we start arguing if Torvalds "deserves" to be richer than Gates (even though both are quite better than adequate programmers from their time) that's a different story.

But in the end most of it really sounds like sour grapes and complaining.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#193

Post by awad » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:33 PM UTC

Solvency wrote: post #104

Climato wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need at least 400 Million to enter the car manufacturer market. The investment does sound absolutely reasonable at this point.

Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

I'm not aware of any pure platform available off the shelf, though I imagine a big enough checkbook and a conversation with Magna might get you pretty far, but you can buy from Ford the Mustang Mach-E motor https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#194

Post by astrange » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:33 PM UTC

Karellen wrote: post #111

gumptionary wrote: post #25

Tony Aquila is the CEO of both companies - Canoo and Aquila Family Ventures. I'll never understand why it's okay for CEOs to have multiple concurrent jobs, while one of the biggest fervors of the pandemic was when employees were found to have... multiple concurrent jobs.

Because CEO's decide which is okay and which isn't, and because fuck you, that's why. No, it's not logical, or consistent, or rationally defensible. They don't give a shit , and they don't believe they have you answer to you. If they choose to give any answer at all, it will be bullshit in the "On Bullshit" sense of the word; the answer will not be made with any consideration for truth, but just to provide whatever w…

No they don't, boards do.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#195

Post by bombcar » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:34 PM UTC

denton-scratch wrote: post #128

The boss already owns the jet. Now he makes his company rent it from him, so he can zoom around in the plane he already owns, and that he would be zooming around in even if he weren't the Canoo boss. I don't think a company should be paying for the boss's jet, if the company isn't near break-even. I'd say the boss doesn't believe the company has legs, and he's extracting cash while he can.

Replace "jet" with "time" and the argument still holds. Why should the CEO get a salary if the company isn't near break-even?

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#196

Post by ilrwbwrkhv » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:35 PM UTC

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #178

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure these companies are a massive money laundering operation. What does Solera even do or ever did? Prior to the acquisitions?

Solera sold risk management and asset protection software. A company with $1bn+ in annual sales [1] is a money-laundering operation? Hint - Most ultra-rich people make their money in boring industries you wouldn't even know about. 1- https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/delisted/SLH/solera-holdi...

Most of these businesses are actually fronts. They siphon money from Africa and other third world countries with poor laws and wash it with money from private equity firms.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#197

Post by bombcar » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:36 PM UTC

snakeyjake wrote: post #141

I love startup culture. The CEO of my company flies commercial, and we've have thousands of employees, have been around since the 1940s, actually ship products, and make a shit-ton money. But startup CEOs leading companies with 800 employees that can't ship hardly anything are movin & shakin so startupfully between plays and deals that they ain't got no time for that. $1.8 million per year for travel is $5,000 per da…

First class flights are completely different from potato class, and private jets are so far above first class it's really hard to exactly explain how much.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#198

Post by drexlspivey » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:37 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #169

drexlspivey wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I’m assuming you’re paying for plane tickets out of pocket when going on a business trip. Otherwise it would be embezzlement right?

He’s buying air travel from himself. Unless he’s undercutting the commercial carriers, that means the company is spending more than it needs to with the difference going to his pockets. It’d be much cleaner ethically for him to get reimbursed the cost of a business class ticket and pay for his jet out of pocket if he can’t abide flying with the little people.

If the company requires a private jet they can either pay for a lease from some other vendor or pay the CEO to lease his jet. Unless they are paying way above market price I don't see how this is embezzlment or even fishy.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#199

Post by bombcar » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:37 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #182

alberth wrote: post #109

> The company generated $886,000 in revenue Plenty of companies spend more than that on just AWS egress fees. I’m not saying money spent on a private jet is right or wrong. But when a company is not profitable, you could compare this to anything. Like the headline could have easily been “Canoo spent double its annual revenue on AWS egress fees”

AWS egress fees serve a legitimate business function. They might be higher than what they could be with optimization but they go towards a business service. What we’re seeing here is more like if those egress charges were due to him hosting the business on his own cloud service even though it cost more.

Did it cost more? From a quick search the amount seems reasonable for "years worth of private jet use".

If CEO travel is a legitimate business function, you're now arguing "AWS vs server in your closet" kind of questions and haggling on price.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#200

Post by ryandrake » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 6:37 PM UTC

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #112

ryandrake wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of bad in our society can be explained by the fact that a lot of people seriously believe that some people are inherently better than others, and deserve to be at the top of the hierarchy, to follow different rules, to get more than one vote, that they are "elite" and should therefore get better treatment. Egalitarianism is not a universally held doctrine. I thought the downvotes were coming from people who did…

People aren't inherently better than others, but people are infinitely better at some things than others. Terrence Tao is inherently better at mathematics than I am, and I'd be a fool to claim otherwise. Torvalds is a much better programmer than I am. There are endless examples.

I'm not saying people aren't better at things than others. The thread was about whether these people deserved special treatment or a different set of rules because of this.