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Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

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Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#141

Post by snakeyjake »

I love startup culture. The CEO of my company flies commercial, and we've have thousands of employees, have been around since the 1940s, actually ship products, and make a shit-ton money.

But startup CEOs leading companies with 800 employees that can't ship hardly anything are movin & shakin so startupfully between plays and deals that they ain't got no time for that.

$1.8 million per year for travel is $5,000 per day. That's more than a day-of round-trip first-class flight on ANA ($20k today) from NYC to Tokyo every week.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#142

Post by Solvency »

Powdering7082 wrote: post #58
dgrin91 wrote: post #36

The headline is relatively clickbait-y. Its double their revenue because their revenue is basically 0. Their actual expenses are hundreds of millions, of which this 1.7 million is a drop in the bucket. Once their upfront expenses are paid they will (presumably) be making hundreds of millions/billions in revenue, which means this 1.7m is not particularly important. You can talk about standard complaints of CEOs with p…

yes it's clickbait-y, but it also seems a bit like it's burying the lede with the fact that the CEO is self dealing on top of it. > Canoo reimburses Aquila Family Ventures, an entity owned by the CEO, for use of an aircraft.

Imagine if all salaried employees working from an office created a personal LLC to own their car, and then had their work compensate them by reimbursing each employees LLC.

Would that pass muster?

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#143

Post by ewhanley »

Solvency wrote: post #120
JoshTriplett wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How enthusiastic do you think those companies would be if someone came to them wanting to license their design perpetually and use it to compete with them? And even if that is something they're willing to do (which they might be), the terms would then make it difficult to ever do something that isn't based on that platform, since the manufacturer whose design is licensed would likely object that the new design was st…

there isn't a single electric vehicle on the market that looks anything like the international scout, FJ40, or any classic rugged vehicle. Look at how much icon4x4 restorations go for. There are wealthy people out there with great taste, but no big auto manufacturer seems to want to produce a chassis with this aesthetic. So why wouldn't Ford or GM be cool with letting a smaller label do this and testing the market?

It's a niche market. I love Icon's stuff but they sell very low numbers of vehicles. I would love to have an ev FJ40 or Scout, but I'm skeptical the general populace wants these as much as enthusiasts think they do.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#144

Post by throwawaymaths »

tromp wrote: post #81

> avoid the same fate as other EV startups, like recently bankrupt Arrival. Talking about other EV startups, I wonder how much longer Aptera can remain in a state somewhere in between not having gone bankrupt and not having started production yet. They do seem to be forever inching closer toward the latter [1]. [1] https://electrek.co/2024/04/01/aptera-showcase-solar-ev-tech...

According to their CFO who authorized the CEO to make the statement (kind of a big deal for legal reasons) aptera makes breakeven by making 6k cars a year, so they have 7 years number of preorders. Even assuming a low preorder execution rate at like 20% it seems like they will be good to go.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#145

Post by LastTrain »

gruturo wrote: post #93
diggan wrote: post #7

> Under a deal reached in November 2020, Canoo reimburses Aquila Family Ventures, an entity owned by the CEO (Tony Aquila), for use of an aircraft. In 2023, Canoo spent $1.7 million on this reimbursement — that’s double the amount of revenue it generated. Canoo paid Aquila Family Ventures $1.3 million in 2022 and $1.8 million in 2021 for use of the aircraft. I'm surprised there are any employees left at the company.…

If he actually uses the jet for Canoo-related business, this is not unreasonable. Assuming those trips may eventually lead to business deals, and that the amounts reimbursed are in line with free market prices, it is advantageous to Canoo. Their CEO could be x% "more effective" (I know how abstract that sounds), ultimately benefiting the company, and maybe they even got a good deal ("hey, I own a jet, and it has to f…

Ethics in the 21st century I guess. No, conflicts work the opposite way - assumed shady until cleared. Virtually every business works this way, especially ones with investors. Conflicts can of course be legitimately cleared, but not with just some hand-waving. It is no different than my company not allowing me to direct business to entities owned by myself or my family.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#146

Post by slaw »

glitchc wrote: post #129
Solvency wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

Using an ICE base platform for EVs doesn't make sense, and there is no EV base platform for sale/license. Companies building the EVs are holding their cards tightly to their chests for competitive advantage.

There are EV base platforms for sale and license. For example Nio licensees it's platform. 60% of EVs are made/sold in China so that's where you should look for a platform.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#147

Post by s0rce »

glitchc wrote: post #129
Solvency wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

Using an ICE base platform for EVs doesn't make sense, and there is no EV base platform for sale/license. Companies building the EVs are holding their cards tightly to their chests for competitive advantage.

Isn't the Subaru Solterra based on the same platform as the Toyota bz4x?

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#148

Post by singleshot_ »

Solvency wrote: post #104
Climato wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need at least 400 Million to enter the car manufacturer market. The investment does sound absolutely reasonable at this point.

Can someone explain why people try to make new cars from the ground up, rather than "fork" a base platform from GM/Toyota/KIA/whoever with a different design and little features? This happens in literally every other market and industry. hell, just look at PCs and laptops. Like why can't a Canoo or Rivian license a base EV platform and come up with their own chassis design, infotainment system, and other little thing…

“Body-in-white” is a relevant search term if you would like to learn a little bit about the options in this area.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#149

Post by efnx »

imzadi wrote: post #73
efnx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they say “if you don’t like it, leave!”. And so now we live in New Zealand.

Must be nice to not be over 40 when the world implodes

Well I’m 40 and my partner is 45, but who knows how old we’ll be when/if the shit hits the fan.

Re: Canoo spent double its annual revenue on the CEO's private jet

#150

Post by neom »

echoangle wrote: post #137
neom wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his net worth is $400MM+, his insurance my very well require him to fly private.

Is that really a thing? Is private supposed to be more secure because of accidents or because of risk of kidnapping and assassinations? I don’t see a reason why private flights would be less accident-prone than public flights. Edit: looks like private flights are actually much more dangerous than airlines, the insurance would probably prefer if you would fly public… (not my favorite source but the first thing I found…

It is a thing, yes. A friend of mine was discussing how he has to think about the events to go to because his key man insurance on his family office requires him to use his own pilot, so he's contently inventing dumb reasons not to go to things vs admitting his cheap and doesn't want to spend the money. Two things I find amusing about this... rich people being cheap is always funny, and, as you mentioned, insurance companies preferring a private pilot when flying private it less safe. Apple requires this for Tim Cook too, and I always thought it was amusing.
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