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50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

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Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#111

Post by specialist »

gaius wrote: post #75
jbooth wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe this comment. Segregation and poll taxes were no big deal, right? Things were great for black people back when it was enshrined legal doctrine to treat them as a lower category of people. You want to know why black people vote for the same party every time? Because it's the alternative to your party.

The world is not that simple. Bush had Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice, who did Bill Clinton have? Al Sharpton?

"There were often a few token people who were allowed to stay on in town provisionally: usually, they offered an unusual trade or service that a small town relied on, and were thus granted an exception to the sundown rules."

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-to-out-sundown-town...

Preface: I'm a white American, with plenty of WASP guilt.

I forget the issue, but an African-American was in the news spewing the standard reprehensible winger talking points.

An African-American coworker of mine said "There's always one", shaking his head in disgust. He probably let his guard down around me, because we got to know each other pretty well and he knew of my political activism (voting issues).

I asked him to explain. He said no matter how stupid or extreme an issue, the white man could always find some black man to voice support.

I'm guessing that "there's always one" is a cliche in the African-American world.

Spike Lee's Boyz in the Hood, a fucking great movie, had scene depicting this phenomenon.

So, in sum, when Clarence Thomas, Condi, or that US Rep Allen fruitcake says something retarded, it's still retarded, and I don't have to measure my criticism (of the idea) just because I'm white and the speaker is black.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#112

Post by ScottBurson »

rome wrote: post #108
freehunter wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm wondering if blacks could vote if they dressed up in whiteface and pretended to be white to fool the voter board. You know, denying everything they are. Just like a gay person marrying the opposite sex. Gays have benefited from the liberalism and civil rights movement in that the majority of the population doesn't hate them for being different. But you can't deny that they're being harrased, beaten, killed, p…

I did not tell anyone to marry, let alone tell gays to marry straight. I never said that gays weren't treated badly. I also never said that gays should pretend they are not gay to get married. Nothing I said was false or was meant to slight gay people. My comment was a response to someone comparing the two plights. For me, the differences are worth discussing.

First you say...

Gay people have never experienced the maltreatment that blacks have in this country.

Then you come back with:

I never said that gays weren't treated badly.

Gays have been routinely beaten up and occasionally murdered for decades. Many have been rejected by their own families.

Freehunter is right, of course -- this is not about comparing who is the most persecuted, as if only the winner of such a comparison had the right to complain about it. It's about seeing prejudice for what it is.

I think that if you really looked at what a lot of gay people have gone through, you would not so facilely deny any similarity between that and what blacks have experienced. Of course there are differences; they are different situations. But there are also very substantial similarities. It appears that you don't want to look at the similarities, and I think you should ask yourself why not.

EDITED TO ADD:

You should really talk to some gay black people. The ones I have spoken to about this have all said the experiences aren't very different at all.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#113

Post by kylemaxwell »

moldbug wrote: post #102
rmc wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, basically, the only no-go areas in 60s USA (for african-americas) were in the middle of nowhere where hardly anyone wanted to go, but now-a-days, the people can't go into half of a large, populous city? I think you might have a rosy eyed view of the past… You know crime in the USA has actually fallen a lot recently?

Trust me, I'm oddly familiar with the country this used to be. Go back and read some primary sources - there are a lot here: http://unz.org/ Crime statistics in the USA have actually fallen a lot recently. What's your explanation of this? You didn't by any chance watch The Wire ? You don't by any chance read the New York Times ? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/nyregion/no-room-for-disse... The former captains spoke…

You use this phrase "trust me" more than is probably warranted in this circumstance.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#114

Post by kamaal »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #106
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting photos of life in Kabul in the sixties. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a... Quote: "A half-century ago, Afghan women pursued careers in medicine; men and women mingled casually at movie theaters and university campuses in Kabul; factories in the suburbs churned out textiles and other goods. There was a tradition of law and order, and a government capable of undertaking large na…

By three decades of war and Islam. The sad thing is, I don't see Islamic countries evolve much. They seem to have no drive to get better unless they have oil and are lucky at the same time.

>>By three decades of war and Islam.

War, I agree. Unnecessary remark on Islam!

But there are no statistics to indicate that Islam propagates backwardness. Fundamentalism in any religion, may be. But to say a particular religion propagates backwardness is not a right remark.

Islamic scholars have contributed a lot back to the world. Infact corner stone of computer science Algorithm is named after a Arabic scholar of Islamic faith.

Your point comes across as a tell tale sign of Islamophobia in the west to perceive every other muslim as a backward moron from the stonage waiting to blow up the whole world.

While the fact is muslims are like any other people in the world.

For a change you must look into your own backyard and question who started those wars. Is it the mistake of the Afghans that soviets invaded them? Is it mistake of Iraqi's that US invaded them without any proof of WMD's.

You go burning the whole world, in a century US has invaded more countries than anybody else(Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Korean Peninsula, Japan, Countries in South America). You've killed several millions of people under the pretext of war, destroyed their national infrastructure to dust. Denied them any hope recovery by sanctions. And you call others backward?

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#115

Post by mturmon »

solutionyogi wrote: post #104
gaius wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from India (currently living in NY) and I find it really surprising that it was only 50 years ago that there was race discrimination in US Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit As bad a American segregation (or South African apartheid) was, it was nothing compared to the Indian caste system, which is still practiced today.

I guess I was not clear in my comment. In no way, I was implying that India is better than USA. My surprise stemmed from the fact that based on my current experience, it seems odd that it was barely 50 years ago that race discrimination was rampant. I would have thought that those things would have put behind 100 years ago for USA to be where it is.

It's worse than you might imagine. The federal Fair Housing Act was passed in 1968. Before that time, it was legal to have a "covenant" that prohibited blacks from living in certain neighborhoods (housing developments). It was some years after 1968 that it actually started being enforced with some vigor.

You can still talk to older people (say, people in their 60s) in Los Angeles, who chose the house they now live in because that neighborhood allowed blacks, asians, or mixed-race couples to buy property, and other nearby neighborhoods did not allow it.

In other words, even these blatant and widespread effects of racism are not past history by any means.

Note: I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, just trying to add some historical background.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#116

Post by [deleted] »

moldbug wrote: post #59
rauljara wrote: post #25

The racism those photos document is startling. Just 50 years ago? Though, in my private high school in Indiana, in 1999 I overheard kids more than once telling n *er jokes. I heard less overtly racists at the school saying things like "Yeah, it would be weird to have a black friend." These were the rich kids who parents owned the local businesses. I have a hard time believing the kids weren't getting it from the pare…

Wow, enlightened white people. We sure are good at patting ourselves on the back, aren't we? Reality check: in 1962, every American city, north or south, with a substantial black population had a thriving black business district and a commercial middle class. Example: Bronzeville in Chicago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas,_Chicago#Bronzeville Enlightened white people destroyed these worlds and the people who li…

[deleted]

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#117

Post by [deleted] »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #106
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting photos of life in Kabul in the sixties. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a... Quote: "A half-century ago, Afghan women pursued careers in medicine; men and women mingled casually at movie theaters and university campuses in Kabul; factories in the suburbs churned out textiles and other goods. There was a tradition of law and order, and a government capable of undertaking large na…

By three decades of war and Islam. The sad thing is, I don't see Islamic countries evolve much. They seem to have no drive to get better unless they have oil and are lucky at the same time.

[deleted]

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#118

Post by [deleted] »

mindrag wrote: post #54
ezequiel-garzon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect, or demand, it to not be US centric? I, for one, would not. But "The World" in the title seems unwarranted. Just as it does for many "World Series" that only apply to the US, even if everybody deems American teams of sport X to be clearly above the rest.

The best baseball players in the world play in the US, so it truly is a World Series, regardless of where the teams play.

[deleted]

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#119

Post by [deleted] »

mindrag wrote: post #54
ezequiel-garzon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect, or demand, it to not be US centric? I, for one, would not. But "The World" in the title seems unwarranted. Just as it does for many "World Series" that only apply to the US, even if everybody deems American teams of sport X to be clearly above the rest.

The best baseball players in the world play in the US, so it truly is a World Series, regardless of where the teams play.

[deleted]

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#120

Post by [deleted] »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #106
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting photos of life in Kabul in the sixties. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a... Quote: "A half-century ago, Afghan women pursued careers in medicine; men and women mingled casually at movie theaters and university campuses in Kabul; factories in the suburbs churned out textiles and other goods. There was a tradition of law and order, and a government capable of undertaking large na…

By three decades of war and Islam. The sad thing is, I don't see Islamic countries evolve much. They seem to have no drive to get better unless they have oil and are lucky at the same time.

[deleted]
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