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50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

theatlantic.com

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Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#101

Post by a-priori »

rmc wrote: post #35
rauljara wrote: post #25

The racism those photos document is startling. Just 50 years ago? Though, in my private high school in Indiana, in 1999 I overheard kids more than once telling n *er jokes. I heard less overtly racists at the school saying things like "Yeah, it would be weird to have a black friend." These were the rich kids who parents owned the local businesses. I have a hard time believing the kids weren't getting it from the pare…

The racism those photos document is startling. Just 50 years ago? Imagine what "Marriage is between one man and one woman" people will look like in 50 years.

Depending where you are and how old you are, it's already happened.

Same-sex marriage has been legal in Canada for 7 years now, since 2005. My wife's a high school teacher, and when it was legalized her students were 8-9 years old -- too young to care about who can and can't marry whom. Same-sex marriage being legal is, to them, now the default. They don't see it as being a 'debate' and and don't really understand why it's such a big deal in the States.

She says that homophobia in general is almost entirely a thing of the past. There's the odd student that says something homophobic, but all the other students look at them like they're weird. This is a complete 180 from when I was in high school 8 years ago.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#102

Post by moldbug »

rmc wrote: post #99
moldbug wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, of course - I'm glad to be corrected. What I really meant to say was that in 1962 there were no no-go zones anywhere in America, Crackerjack Peckerwood Creek in the deep back asshole of Alabama where no one without a mullet in a Camaro would want to go anyway excepted. (Alas, in 1962 there were no Camaros either.) Trust me, I went to high school in Howard County, Maryland, and I would be the last person…

So, basically, the only no-go areas in 60s USA (for african-americas) were in the middle of nowhere where hardly anyone wanted to go, but now-a-days, the people can't go into half of a large, populous city? I think you might have a rosy eyed view of the past… You know crime in the USA has actually fallen a lot recently?

Trust me, I'm oddly familiar with the country this used to be. Go back and read some primary sources - there are a lot here:

http://unz.org/

Crime statistics in the USA have actually fallen a lot recently. What's your explanation of this? You didn't by any chance watch The Wire? You don't by any chance read the New York Times?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/nyregion/no-room-for-disse...

The former captains spoke of an unrelenting, often unethical pressure to manipulate crime statistics. In addition, the professors studied police and health data and found weird divergences. City hospital data shows a 90 percent increase in emergency room visits for assaults from 1999 to 2006. But police data for the same period records a nearly 50 percent decrease in assaults.

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodharts_law

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#103

Post by lifeisstillgood »

rauljara wrote: post #25

The racism those photos document is startling. Just 50 years ago? Though, in my private high school in Indiana, in 1999 I overheard kids more than once telling n *er jokes. I heard less overtly racists at the school saying things like "Yeah, it would be weird to have a black friend." These were the rich kids who parents owned the local businesses. I have a hard time believing the kids weren't getting it from the pare…

Apparently, white births are now a minority in US: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18100457

I could not see this as a submission on its own but it seems relevant here. As the US (white) population ages, it seems that immigration has played an incredible part without anyone noticing - its less about race now, then about age, but the dividing lines might not be drawn that way.

And we all know what can go wrong if you are looking at the wrong question for your answers.

[edit - wanted to emphasise age context more]

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#104

Post by solutionyogi »

gaius wrote: post #76
solutionyogi wrote: post #6

I am from India (currently living in NY) and I find it really surprising that it was only 50 years ago that there was race discrimination in US. My college friends are all over the world (UK, rest of the Europe, Germany, Australia etc.) and based on my conversation with them, USA is the place with least amount of 'racism' against Asians (I put racism in quotes because there is no blatant, in the face racism in USA. I…

I am from India (currently living in NY) and I find it really surprising that it was only 50 years ago that there was race discrimination in US Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit As bad a American segregation (or South African apartheid) was, it was nothing compared to the Indian caste system, which is still practiced today.

I guess I was not clear in my comment. In no way, I was implying that India is better than USA. My surprise stemmed from the fact that based on my current experience, it seems odd that it was barely 50 years ago that race discrimination was rampant. I would have thought that those things would have put behind 100 years ago for USA to be where it is.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#105

Post by trimbo »

laacz wrote: post #68
arethuza wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So much suffering, so much cruelty" Indeed, and only by an incredibly narrow margin did we escape many orders of magnitudes more suffering and cruelty - we really did come awfully close to the edge during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Actually, I believe that nowadays we live in even more cruel and lethal world than 50 years ago. On the other hand, we also have so many wonderful things. I do not believe that evil/good ratio has gone down in these 50 years.

> I believe that nowadays we live in even more cruel and lethal world than 50 years ago

Good news! You'd be wrong. The world is safer and more peaceful than it's ever been. This book presents the facts on it: http://www.amazon.com/Winning-War-Decline-Conflict-Worldwide...

The difference between then and now is that we have so much media to saturate our minds. It seems like it's worse.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#106

Post by guard-of-terra »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #9
didgeoridoo wrote: post #3

50 years ago in Afghanistan it was 1962. Today it is 1262. Sort of makes you realize that peace, freedom and technological advancement aren't defaults, but aberrations. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be an Afghan citizen who was born in Kabul in the 1940s... It must feel like being stuck in a time machine.

Interesting photos of life in Kabul in the sixties. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a... Quote: "A half-century ago, Afghan women pursued careers in medicine; men and women mingled casually at movie theaters and university campuses in Kabul; factories in the suburbs churned out textiles and other goods. There was a tradition of law and order, and a government capable of undertaking large na…

By three decades of war and Islam.

The sad thing is, I don't see Islamic countries evolve much. They seem to have no drive to get better unless they have oil and are lucky at the same time.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#107

Post by thisrod »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #106
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting photos of life in Kabul in the sixties. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a... Quote: "A half-century ago, Afghan women pursued careers in medicine; men and women mingled casually at movie theaters and university campuses in Kabul; factories in the suburbs churned out textiles and other goods. There was a tradition of law and order, and a government capable of undertaking large na…

By three decades of war and Islam. The sad thing is, I don't see Islamic countries evolve much. They seem to have no drive to get better unless they have oil and are lucky at the same time.

Try telling that to the Indonesians.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#108

Post by rome »

freehunter wrote: post #94
rome wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually everyone except blacks could vote. Contrary to popular belief, gay people can marry, just not same sex. This isn't a statement against same sex marriage, I'm just making a subtle distinction. Gay people have never experienced the maltreatment that blacks have in this country.

Now I'm wondering if blacks could vote if they dressed up in whiteface and pretended to be white to fool the voter board. You know, denying everything they are. Just like a gay person marrying the opposite sex. Gays have benefited from the liberalism and civil rights movement in that the majority of the population doesn't hate them for being different. But you can't deny that they're being harrased, beaten, killed, p…

I did not tell anyone to marry, let alone tell gays to marry straight. I never said that gays weren't treated badly. I also never said that gays should pretend they are not gay to get married. Nothing I said was false or was meant to slight gay people.

My comment was a response to someone comparing the two plights. For me, the differences are worth discussing.

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#109

Post by ScottBurson »

rome wrote: post #50
jaysonelliot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The photos of overt discrimination against African-Americans in 1962 remind me of the overt discrimination we are seeing against gay people today. I hope a similar retrospective in 50 years will see people saying "I find it surprising that there was discrimination against gay people at one time."

I don't see any similarity between the two. Blacks were trying to obtain equal rights. The right to marry same sex is one that no one has, not just gay people.

Let's move this to a different preference and see how it looks. Imagine you were saying:

"The right to write with their left hand is a right that no one has, not just left-handed people."

Do you not see how that would be unfair, not to let people write with whichever hand they prefer, just because the majority happens to be right-handed? What would justify imposing the majority's preference on the minority?

Re: 50 Years Ago: The World in 1962

#110

Post by Arelius »

sliverstorm wrote: post #72
Blunt wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a non sequitur. (IMO) the stuff about "people are colorblind until society teaches them otherwise" is ridiculous, so you put these kids in an environment with no yellow children? Of course they are going to see yellow children as strange- they haven't had the opportunity to interact and learn otherwise. It doesn't have to have anything to do with racist comments from their parents. Labeling anyone of…

To say a child is black, is understood to mean they are of African descent. That's not a label, that's phylogeny. As for the rest, it is a simple fact that the different regions of the world are home to communities with distinct differences in phenotype. Combine that with the (very human) tendency to be cautious around unfamiliar peoples, and there you have it. I'm not saying it is Just, or Right, or any crap like th…

Yes, trying to be blind of people's traits, such as skin color, is indeed not the way to get beyond racism. We need to recognize that some people are different and that is a good thing, not that we should try to ignore the differences.
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