School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere • Hacker News Board

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#201

Post by taeric » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:14 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #182

pavel_lishin wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those breaks don't line up with things like the solar eclipse. Because those breaks don't line up with other cousins' breaks. Because those breaks don't line up with great-grandma's 95th birthday, and she lives a full day's journey away. Because those breaks don't line up with your work schedule, or your partner's work schedule. Because my child is excelling academically, and I absolutely don't think that she…

All of those situations existed in decades past. Why do parents think that school doesn't provide as much value as they used to?

I get the impression it is more that many students that feel they were above the system are projecting other reasons into this, to be frank. Especially in forums like this one. Combine that with somehow we seem to have far less empathy and charity than in the past, and you get this sort of situation.

And it isn't even that folks are wrong; but evidence is fairly clear that nobody has a solution for education that works. We do know of a bunch of small things that can work in some situations, but at large, we are still trying.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#202

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:14 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #18

Is it possible that expectations around attendance have never been reasonable or even safe? In an ideal world, people shouldn't go to work or school when they are sick. Not only does it slow their recovery, but in the case of communicable diseases, it spreads the illness. Yet a lot of schools have released post-pandemic guidance about how students should still come to school with minor illnesses. And most workplaces…

This hypothesis doesn't at all jive with the data in the article, which is about chronic absenteeism, and which shows that absentee rates have absolutely exploded. This is not just about people with the sniffles not coming to school.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#203

Post by volkl48 » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:15 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #182

pavel_lishin wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those breaks don't line up with things like the solar eclipse. Because those breaks don't line up with other cousins' breaks. Because those breaks don't line up with great-grandma's 95th birthday, and she lives a full day's journey away. Because those breaks don't line up with your work schedule, or your partner's work schedule. Because my child is excelling academically, and I absolutely don't think that she…

All of those situations existed in decades past. Why do parents think that school doesn't provide as much value as they used to?

Correct, they did. And as someone who went to school ~20 years ago - the requirement the prior poster mentions was either not a thing or not enforced if the student was doing fine academically.

Pretty much no one raised an eyebrow about this sort of thing, certainly not at the 10 day total mark.

Why do you think the rules have remained the same?

Similarly, I don't think I ever had an "excused" absence, I didn't have to provide evidence or doctor's notes to the school when I was sick. That simply wasn't a thing that was tracked at all.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#204

Post by runamuck » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:15 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #18

Is it possible that expectations around attendance have never been reasonable or even safe? In an ideal world, people shouldn't go to work or school when they are sick. Not only does it slow their recovery, but in the case of communicable diseases, it spreads the illness. Yet a lot of schools have released post-pandemic guidance about how students should still come to school with minor illnesses. And most workplaces…

Back in the day I would go to work with severe flu like symptoms. My company championed heroics and I could get points for showing up on "deaths door" reporting to duty. Of course, a few hours in a manager would notice and they would send me home. If you just called in sick, however, "people would talk." Crazy to think about that in the lens of 2024!

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#205

Post by camdenreslink » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:16 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #140

jawns wrote: post #18

Is it possible that expectations around attendance have never been reasonable or even safe? In an ideal world, people shouldn't go to work or school when they are sick. Not only does it slow their recovery, but in the case of communicable diseases, it spreads the illness. Yet a lot of schools have released post-pandemic guidance about how students should still come to school with minor illnesses. And most workplaces…

> Chronic absence is typically defined as missing at least 10 percent of the school year, or about 18 days, for any reason. I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Decades ago when I was in public school, the kids who were chronically absent like this were the ones who clearly had some behavioral issues or problems at home. The linked study also demonstrates that the rates are…

Most schools have a policy of not returning to school until 24 hours after the last measurable fever. One cold can burn 3 days easily that way. Four colds (easy in elementary school) during the season and you’re already up to 12 days. Throw in a stomach bug, and maybe some appointments and now you’re getting really close to the limit.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#206

Post by whiterknight » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:16 PM UTC

halfcat wrote: post #123

7thaccount wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at it is that during lockdown people realized that millions driving through rush hour every day to sit in a cubicle was a drain on the time of employees and a waste of company money in renting the building. I don't care if commercial real estate took a hit outside of impacts to pension/401k. We have the technology now and the pandemic proved it, so we can now evolve in that area. No need to be stu…

Exactly this. The curtain was pulled back and people realized the lies they were being fed by companies. Turns out the business won’t fold if people are remote, and if you’re out sick that immovable deadline gets…moved.

Maybe it won’t collapse but maybe everything is only working 70% as well as it used to. It sure feels that way.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#207

Post by bombcar » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:16 PM UTC

williamcotton wrote: post #108

vlunkr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, lots of travel is based around life events. I can’t control the fact that funerals and weddings can happen at any time of year.

We’re going to two in-law weddings this year and missing a single day of school. Fly in, fly out. Funerals are bereavement leave from school so you don’t need to worry. I feel like 90% of midwesterners would be agreeing with me…

It can entirely depend on your family/friend circle. For me and mine, In-n-Out is expected, weddings are happening in the locality of one of the families, many are day trips.

Other people's family and friends will have multiple destination weddings, etc.

Still suspect it's not a major component, kids can only have so many grandparents after all.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#208

Post by Jcampuzano2 » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:17 PM UTC

williamcotton wrote: post #87

candiddevmike wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, you get 10 days of unexcused absence per year before parents and kids start receiving fines and possibly a referral to CPS. That number is way too small IMO, and it forces folks to go to the doctor constantly for getting small illnesses excused (school policies are 24 hours without a fever, but they don't take temperatures, it's honor based...), since you want to keep those 10 days for an actual vacation.

Why would you take your kids on a vacation during school? There are plenty of breaks during the year including all of summer.

In my elementary schooling my parents would somewhat regularly (once a year, sometimes more) take a week or two vacation that didn't align with breaks, since sometimes things like family events, or good opportunities don't align with school. But my parents did it because they knew I wasn't really missing much.

I and a good many others in my classes were WAY ahead of the curriculum already, and basically sitting bored in class all day. I remember my parents literally asked my teachers to give me more advanced homework because I would constantly say I learned basically nothing or that days would go by wasted reviewing things I had already mastered.

So they were confident that I wasn't really missing much from being out even for a week or two at a time. I don't know if this is standard practice nowadays, but I know my parents also requested from the teacher that weeks worth of coursework so I could do them even while on vacation. I could usually finish a weeks worth of coursework within like an hour or two of sitting down, and I didn't even consider myself a particularly gifted student compared to some.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#209

Post by nlitened » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:17 PM UTC

kwhitefoot wrote: post #55

Perhaps it's because most schooling seems irrelevant to many of the students? I went to very good schools and actually enjoyed quite a lot of my schooldays but even while I was there I could see that a lot of it was a complete and utter waste of everyone's time. I spent six years attending French classes and three of Latin. I can't read, write, speak, or understand either one. I moved to Norway fifteen years later an…

It could also mean that learning two languages in school improved your language learning ability, so it went easy for you later (which probably was the whole point in the first place — for sure nobody expected you to use Latin as a speaking language in you daily life).

Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that people who didn’t learn other languages in school, face difficulties when they start doing that later in life.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#210

Post by schneems » Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 2:17 PM UTC

I hold views in both sides here. I teach computers at an elementary school on Thursdays, and my kids go to that school.

As an educator I see an impact of absences even in this fun class that kids want to go to and there isn’t a grade. We generally have a 1-2 or 1-2-3 approach to teaching something. That is: teach it one week, then review it, then teach or review it again the next.

When someone is out for two weeks they just don’t learn that concept and then later on need specialized attention to be caught up. Or in the case of larger class sizes or multiple kids out the whole class either has to be slowed down or those kids get left behind.

That to me is the bigger problem: absences change the velocity of the class and make it harder for not just the kids that are absent.

On the other hand: I wish school life was more flexible so I could take my kids to more life experiences. Grand parents live an 18 hour drive or an 18 hour flight away. We ski. We travel. And we value school.

I wish there was an easier “if you are out for this week, then here’s a link to the remote curriculum”, but as a teacher, it is the difference between supporting a fully remote office and a hybrid one. It’s more work and teachers are already overworked and under paid compared to the value they have on society.

During covid we had all remote school and while the outcomes of my kids suffered the flexibility was nice. I wish we, as a society and nation figured out how to find a way to make that work instead of going “back to normal” and learning/changing nothing.

For instance: I imagined a nationally backed “remote school” any student could optionally attend on a week they are sick or out. With both live remote lectures and pre-recorded content. Maybe parent guides for some homeschooling. Or if students are lagging behind in that model, maybe sunmer school becomes more normal (or some other creative solution).

It’s a bit like that Rick and Morty episode where he is in the VR game. “ What's this, you beat cancer and then went back to work at the carpet store? Boo.” We lived through Covid and then collectively decided to go back to the carpet store.