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Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

vitalik.eth.limo

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Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#101

Post by hot_gril »

benreesman wrote: post #49
orthecreedence wrote: post #6

I'm so out of the loop these days...I've written off blockchain junk almost entirely. Can someone break down what blobs are? Is this some kind of temporary place for transactions to go so they aren't charged fees individually? EDIT: NVM, I RTFMed https://ethereum.org/en/layer-2/ . I wonder what the trade-offs of layer 2 protocols are. Less secure?

As I always do when someone pops off with a phrase like “blockchain junk” I’ll remind everyone that Barbara Liskov, who is the second female recipient of the Turing Award (and narrowly missed being the first, Frances Allen received the honor in 2006, Professor Liskov did in 2008), the John von Neumann Medal, an honors doctorate from ETH Zurich (received alongside Donald Knuth), countless other honors, and was the doc…

"the consensus mechanism used in," where "used in" is the key part. Not "developed for."

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#102

Post by ArtTimeInvestor »

hot_gril wrote: post #99
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying via Apple Pay means you have to pay Apple so that Apple will pay the vendor for you. How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret?

I think Apple has some special relationship with banks, so it's not this simple. But yeah, one way or another you're trusting Apple Pay, which presumably is more trustworthy than a gas station sale terminal. And if you were signing your own payments, you'd still have to trust your computing device and the bank.

With crypto, you would not have to trust your computing device nor your bank.

You would send $100 to your computing device every now and then. And use that for day to day spendings. If the device turns out to be malicious, you lost only the $100 and stay away from the brand that made the device.

A bank would not be involved at all.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#104

Post by rauljordan2020 »

dboreham wrote: post #66
hanniabu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The actual proving mechanism is either a) too amazing for me to understand or b) not quite figured out yet. Rollups use either optimistic proofs or zero knowledge proofs for settlement > The blob stuff is about "ok if that's a thing how do I prove to some L1 contract that I own these L2 funds?". It's about data availability > there's (supposedly) a way for you to slowly get your funds back by exiting on L1 They're…

> Rollups use either optimistic proofs or zero knowledge proofs for settlement Can you post an example of a code that implements either of these? (the fraud proof, not the happy path) I ask because in the past when I researched L2s such as Optimism, that code was "to be developed".

Hey! I'm one of the developers working on Arbitrum's next iteration of optimistic proofs. It's a really fun problem of many parties resolving disputes about a deterministic state. Happy to answer any questions

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#105

Post by dgellow »

dinobones wrote: post #73
hot_gril wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its main purpose is internet currency. The only serious uses surround that via smart contracts, like decentralized exchanges or provably fair gambling (unsavory as that is). Any time someone says "the currency aspect is separate from blockchain," I'd be wary, seeing how the entire point of blockchain is decentralization via proof of work or stake. NFTs can make sense in theory as an alternative to the already-popular…

The day a network exists where you can reliably send like $0.001 of value with little/no fees is the day the internet changes forever. So many ideas are infeasible right now because CC fees are high, and making any payment is extremely high friction.

In Europe sending money from one bank account to another is generally free and often almost instant

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#106

Post by fwip »

everfree wrote: post #96
dboreham wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rollups use either optimistic proofs or zero knowledge proofs for settlement Can you post an example of a code that implements either of these? (the fraud proof, not the happy path) I ask because in the past when I researched L2s such as Optimism, that code was "to be developed".

I'm pretty sure that this is part of the code that implements fraud proofs on Arbitrum One, which is one of the few L2s to currently have fraud proofs. Sequencer side: https://github.com/OffchainLabs/nitro/blob/d28682b9300d50214... Contract side: https://github.com/OffchainLabs/nitro-contracts/blob/90037b9... It seems to me that Optimism is lagging way behind - I'm not sure if they have fraud proofs yet even to this…

So, Ethereum "has blobs" now that "are provable," by an implementation that doesn't appear to contain tests [0]. Crypto, stay winning.

https://github.com/search?q=test+repo%3AOffchainLabs%2Fnitro...

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#107

Post by danpalmer »

Mahn wrote: post #74

Key quote from the article: > Many have argued that the lack of large-scale applications for the past ten years proves that crypto is useless. I have always argued against this: pretty much every crypto application that is not financial speculation depends on low fees - and so while we have high fees, we should not be surprised that we mainly see financial speculation! > Now that we have blobs, this key constraint th…

5 cents per transaction is high for many parts of the world, and exceptionally high if every interaction in normal life is turned into a financial transaction.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#108

Post by kinakomochidayo »

danpalmer wrote: post #107
Mahn wrote: post #74

Key quote from the article: > Many have argued that the lack of large-scale applications for the past ten years proves that crypto is useless. I have always argued against this: pretty much every crypto application that is not financial speculation depends on low fees - and so while we have high fees, we should not be surprised that we mainly see financial speculation! > Now that we have blobs, this key constraint th…

5 cents per transaction is high for many parts of the world, and exceptionally high if every interaction in normal life is turned into a financial transaction.

It'll come down even more as blobs are increased, and PeerDAS is implemented

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#109

Post by everfree »

fwip wrote: post #106
everfree wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that this is part of the code that implements fraud proofs on Arbitrum One, which is one of the few L2s to currently have fraud proofs. Sequencer side: https://github.com/OffchainLabs/nitro/blob/d28682b9300d50214... Contract side: https://github.com/OffchainLabs/nitro-contracts/blob/90037b9... It seems to me that Optimism is lagging way behind - I'm not sure if they have fraud proofs yet even to this…

So, Ethereum "has blobs" now that "are provable," by an implementation that doesn't appear to contain tests [0]. Crypto, stay winning. https://github.com/search?q=test+repo%3AOffchainLabs%2Fnitro...

What are you saying? There's a "test-cases" folder in the "prover" folder you linked to a search of.

Not sure why it doesn't show up in GitHub's search, but it's right there in front of both of our faces.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#110

Post by hot_gril »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #102
hot_gril wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple has some special relationship with banks, so it's not this simple. But yeah, one way or another you're trusting Apple Pay, which presumably is more trustworthy than a gas station sale terminal. And if you were signing your own payments, you'd still have to trust your computing device and the bank.

With crypto, you would not have to trust your computing device nor your bank. You would send $100 to your computing device every now and then. And use that for day to day spendings. If the device turns out to be malicious, you lost only the $100 and stay away from the brand that made the device. A bank would not be involved at all.

But you're sending that $100 from another computing device, and if you're not trusting a bank-like entity to hold the cryptocurrency for you, you're responsible for securing all your money on that device without locking yourself out.

On the other hand, having some money outside a bank is nice. I've had them freeze my assets before just cuz they felt like it, until I spent a whole day telling them to fix it.

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