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Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

vitalik.eth.limo

91–100 of 515 posts

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#91
post #82

Hmm ... "proto-danksharding" which activated the "blobscriptions protocol" so that blobs are "much cheaper than calldata", all of this helping it to become an "L2-centric ecosystem". In the end, this leaves them "not confident enough in the complex code of an optimistic or SNARK-based EVM verifier". I'm sold ... just tell me where to transfer the money.

[flagged]

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#92
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't any company using blockchain technology be a blockchain project?

Sure, but if every blockchain project is just "building something for the blockchain" then where is the actual value?

You seem to be drawing a distinction here between companies that are building something for blockchain vs building something for people.

Alright, I'll bite, here are some projects that use blockchain for things besides trading tokens or improving blockchain technology:

- https://sarcophagus.io/

- https://www.gitcoin.co/

- https://docs.kleros.io/

There's many more. Many don't have a lot of adoption, and I don't know if they will. But at the very least it's often interesting to see how traditional systems are reimagined in order to enable decentralized, trustless, computer programs (with humans interacting at the perimeter) to fulfill roles which would traditionally be filled by centralized, trusted intermediaries (often humans).

If for no other reason than getting a front seat as many of them fall apart spectacularly but also because it's intellectually fascinating to see problems approached in an inverted manner.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day a network exists where you can reliably send like $0.001 of value with little/no fees is the day the internet changes forever. So many ideas are infeasible right now because CC fees are high, and making any payment is extremely high friction.

Even if you can send $1. Users dislike paying on the web because it is a security risk. Because of this insane system of credit cards, where you give the other party a "secret" which enables them to take the money from you. If you could just send the money, the barrier to pay would be 100x lower. Most websites pay the bills via ads. And make less than $0.001 per visitor. If they could sell a monthly membership for a…

There are traditional ways to send money without giving out a secret, like Apple Pay. But there's plenty of fraud in the other direction, people accepting charges with stolen payment info that end up being reversed. It's always a little the merchant's job to decide whose "money is no good here," and that's because of laws.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#94
post #74

Key quote from the article: > Many have argued that the lack of large-scale applications for the past ten years proves that crypto is useless. I have always argued against this: pretty much every crypto application that is not financial speculation depends on low fees - and so while we have high fees, we should not be surprised that we mainly see financial speculation! > Now that we have blobs, this key constraint th…

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Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The actual proving mechanism is either a) too amazing for me to understand or b) not quite figured out yet. Rollups use either optimistic proofs or zero knowledge proofs for settlement > The blob stuff is about "ok if that's a thing how do I prove to some L1 contract that I own these L2 funds?". It's about data availability > there's (supposedly) a way for you to slowly get your funds back by exiting on L1 They're…

> Rollups use either optimistic proofs or zero knowledge proofs for settlement Can you post an example of a code that implements either of these? (the fraud proof, not the happy path) I ask because in the past when I researched L2s such as Optimism, that code was "to be developed".

I'm pretty sure that this is part of the code that implements fraud proofs on Arbitrum One, which is one of the few L2s to currently have fraud proofs.

Sequencer side:

https://github.com/OffchainLabs/nitro/blob/d28682b9300d50214...

Contract side:

https://github.com/OffchainLabs/nitro-contracts/blob/90037b9...

It seems to me that Optimism is lagging way behind - I'm not sure if they have fraud proofs yet even to this day. I consider Arbitrum to have "picked up the torch" so-to-say.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you can send $1. Users dislike paying on the web because it is a security risk. Because of this insane system of credit cards, where you give the other party a "secret" which enables them to take the money from you. If you could just send the money, the barrier to pay would be 100x lower. Most websites pay the bills via ads. And make less than $0.001 per visitor. If they could sell a monthly membership for a…

There are traditional ways to send money without giving out a secret, like Apple Pay. But there's plenty of fraud in the other direction, people accepting charges with stolen payment info that end up being reversed. It's always a little the merchant's job to decide whose "money is no good here," and that's because of laws.

Paying via Apple Pay means you have to pay Apple so that Apple will pay the vendor for you.

How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret?

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are traditional ways to send money without giving out a secret, like Apple Pay. But there's plenty of fraud in the other direction, people accepting charges with stolen payment info that end up being reversed. It's always a little the merchant's job to decide whose "money is no good here," and that's because of laws.

Paying via Apple Pay means you have to pay Apple so that Apple will pay the vendor for you. How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret?

No, that's not how it works at all. Apple is neither in the authorization nor the transaction clearing/settlement flow.

> How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret?

Credit cards being effectively unrestricted bearer tokens isn't nearly the only way to do payments. For example you could send a signed message to your bank instructing them to pay Apple (in a world in which you'd be paying them; again, Apple Pay is not that).

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are traditional ways to send money without giving out a secret, like Apple Pay. But there's plenty of fraud in the other direction, people accepting charges with stolen payment info that end up being reversed. It's always a little the merchant's job to decide whose "money is no good here," and that's because of laws.

Paying via Apple Pay means you have to pay Apple so that Apple will pay the vendor for you. How do you pay Apple without giving them a secret?

I think Apple has some special relationship with banks, so it's not this simple. But yeah, one way or another you're trusting Apple Pay, which presumably is more trustworthy than a gas station sale terminal.

And if you were signing your own payments, you'd still have to trust your computing device and the bank.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#100
post #74

Key quote from the article: > Many have argued that the lack of large-scale applications for the past ten years proves that crypto is useless. I have always argued against this: pretty much every crypto application that is not financial speculation depends on low fees - and so while we have high fees, we should not be surprised that we mainly see financial speculation! > Now that we have blobs, this key constraint th…

> which adds a great deal of UX complexity to the end user

Not exactly, L2s are being abstracted away, end users eventually wont even be aware what chain they are interacting with without tracing the tx

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