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Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

reuters.com

421–430 of 783 posts

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#421

The biggest problem I see is that we’re now essentially requiring ID to use substantial parts of the internet. So many business only have a Facebook page, Google maps has social features. I already didn’t want a Facebook account just to see a businesses specials, now I’ll need to present ID too? Certainly interested to see how all this plays out.

Apple, Google or any other trusted provider could do anonymous attestation of being over a certain age. Apple already has the framework in safari to attest that you aren't a bot.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we're talking about stopping children having social media accounts.

And how do you know they're not a child? Bars do it by having you show an id. Online pot dispensaries do it by having you upload an id. Texas expects porn sites to do it by having you upload an id. How does Florida expect a site to do it? This is a legitimate question that I want the answer to. Presumably "check this box" isn't going to cut it. So if it's not the most common way to enforce an actual legal restriction…

There's really no need for ID checking. Most porn sites already self-regulated by marking their content adult with meta tags/headers.

Parental control software picks up on that. [1]

Social media could do the same thing: make a social media adults-only meta tag for parental control software to use.

For the parents that care, and use parental control software, the ID laws won't stop their kids running into porn. The porn their kids are going to encounter is going to be on non-porn sites like twitter or reddit (or small sites that don't care about these laws anyway).

Maybe we needed a bigger push for more awareness or better parental control software but the ID law push is weird and unamerican to me.

[1] https://www.rtalabel.org/

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#423

I'll be the odd guy out and say it should probably be illegal to attempt to enter a contract (AUP, privacy policy, etc) with a minor anyway (for a lot of reasons around exploitation), so I don't _really_ have a major issue with this at face value. I know the devil is in the details though, so kinda curious what the actual provisions are. The alternative is a free internet, where we don't need accounts to do things, b…

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Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#424
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 14 year old and the content of social media seems to be what bums her out. She seems to be ingrained with the idea that she will never own a home, environmental disasters will be constant and the economy will be in shambles by the time she reaches adulthood. Maybe America just has a uniquely depressive social media environment? I have not read any kind of large scale studies examining the "tone" of social me…

> I respond by letting her know she will be able to buy a house if she wants one I assume she's good at math? I'm sure she's solved way harder math problems than calculating how long it will take to save up a $200k down payment when you make $4k a month and pay 80% of that in rent and taxes. > the economy will always be good for people who are work smart and hard, Ummm....well, if that's been your experience, God ble…

You are really ignoring that I put smart before hard.

Sorry things haven't gone your way though, I am kinda surprised someone could have been in tech for > 10 years and not have significant savings, stock, real estate or something built up.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree and disagree. Kids can't really understand the negative impact of the things made to alter their mind, and since their parents are responsible for them, it's their job not to just explain, but to do their best to limit or participate in their usage. This is only difficult if your children are not in your presence 24/7 (public school, hanging out at malls, etc).

> This is only difficult if your children are not in your presence 24/7 (public school, hanging out at malls, etc). So you're just saying it is difficult.

It's the paradox of being a parent that is commonly hoisted upon you.

If you hang too close you're a helicopter parent. If you aren't around and they do something wrong idiots scream "where are the parents!?"

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#426
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has become such a common trope that I think people fail to apply even a modicum of scrutiny: the internet is not the town square and whatever your idea of the town square is likely wrong if you think its as wild-west-y as the internet is. Firstly, try to approach children in the town square while wearing a mask for anonymity; or try to hold up images of porn in your town square. You will not be there long, you'd…

>This has become such a common trope that I think people fail to apply even a modicum of scrutiny: the internet is not the town square Where is the majority of politics and recent events discussed? Where are new ideas shared and accepted or rejected? Where is this topic being discussed? Case rested. >Secondly, why do people think there is some sort of town square? It's an international phenomenon, probably as old as…

If actual politics reflected sentiment on the internet, US politics would look very different. The Overton window on the internet is very different from real life, there is tremendous bot traffic from outside the US, there are people with multiple accounts, and algorithms and "trust and safety" rules that promote certain views above others. You are confusing signal and noise. The majority of politics - that matter - is not discussed online, the majority of new ideas are not shared/accepted/rejected online - even in a business sense most founders know their cofounders personally, not from online chats. Case rested.

You idea of the town square is also outdated. Do you think the municipal government in Rome still meets at the Forum? And you did not address my point that even if it did exist as it did in whatever millennium you yearn for, would the behavior that is present on the internet be tolerated the same way? Was the Forum or Copley or Dock square known for adult men showing their genitalia to underage women? Your idea of a town square is antiquated and likely would not have tolerated the behavior you think the internet should just because its the town square. Case rested.

> The rest of your post sounds like moral panic.

Nice rebuttal there. If it's just moral panic, why does the data suggest that social media use its detrimental to adolescents' mental health and well being? Why is the effort to curtail social media influence on kids' a bipartisan effort in an increasingly partisan society? Even the misguided level of libertarianism you're probably advocating for understands that short of pure anarchy, there are some externalities governments have to address, chief among them are social media platforms that are evidently harmful to certain parts of society (young kids). Case rested.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#427

I'll be the odd guy out and say it should probably be illegal to attempt to enter a contract (AUP, privacy policy, etc) with a minor anyway (for a lot of reasons around exploitation), so I don't _really_ have a major issue with this at face value. I know the devil is in the details though, so kinda curious what the actual provisions are. The alternative is a free internet, where we don't need accounts to do things, b…

Generally speaking, in the US, contracts with minor (< 18) are voidable, that is, at any time the minor can break the contract. This creates a situation where no one would ever contract with a minor, which is obviously bad (how is an emancipated minor supposed to rent an apartment?) so there are statutory exceptions where the contract will be enforced.

The minor gets a co-signer for the apartment.

Why would anybody rent to a minor otherwise, regardless of the contract breaking issues. They are unlikely to have much credit history. To say nothing of the maturity / responsibility and income (+ wealth / cash savings) problems.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve gotten by for the last several years without Facebook or Google (I do use a YT account, but not for anything meaningful). It’s annoying, but doable. I think the point is that the internet and particularly social media is now the de-facto town square. States are basically requiring identification to speak or criticize government in the town square. If you take a step back and look at it that way, it's grossly an…

Even if it was the town square many actual town squares require adults to accompany minors. Sure enough if you had a bunch of unattended 12 year olds hanging out the cops would be called and parents asked to be parents. Even worse would happen if you left your 6 year old wonder around the town square unattended while you went to a movie.

>Even if it was the town square many actual town squares require adults to accompany minors. Sure enough if you had a bunch of unattended 12 year olds hanging out the cops would be called and parents asked to be parents.

What? Where is this the case?

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#429

People might see it as harsh but looking at reality and the hard numbers collected about the gigantic negative impact it has on kids and teenagers this is the right move, would even push it till 18.

I'm a parent of an 11 and 14 year old and I have mixed feelings about this. First, I am concerned about the negative effect of social media on kids and my initial reaction to this was positive, but then I remembered my 11 year old daughter uses Messenger kids to keep up with her cousin across the country. They only see each other once a year so the fact that they have this connection I see as really positive, and the accounts on that platform are totally controlled by parents.

My son is old enough the law would give us a choice and I'd let him keep Discord I think as well. If there is something positive here though it would be forcing the companies to make it easier for parents to control what their kids do, it should just be up to them.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#430
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has become such a common trope that I think people fail to apply even a modicum of scrutiny: the internet is not the town square and whatever your idea of the town square is likely wrong if you think its as wild-west-y as the internet is. Firstly, try to approach children in the town square while wearing a mask for anonymity; or try to hold up images of porn in your town square. You will not be there long, you'd…

"Secondly, why do people think there is some sort of town square?" Cities and towns in the US were once often built around town squares. Many cities have open public areas like this in Europe and South America where people can congregate. Plaza de Mayo in Buenos Aires comes to mind. Cities in the US haven't been designed around a central town square in a long time, but the term has stuck colloquially. https://en.wiki…

My point is not that they NEVER existed, its that they no longer exist in the capacity most people mean when they use the term. As you mentioned, cities used to be organized around them. Most people now live in cities that are either don't have one at all or don't have one that is used in the way they were hundreds of years ago.

Furthermore, the behavior that was tolerated in the town square would not be close to what we tolerate online. And we don't afford kids the freedom in the real world that we do online. I am not sure why people think that requiring parental consent or age verification online is some sort of assault on personal liberty.

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