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Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

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Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#231
The recent World Happiness Report[0] concluded:

> In many but not all regions, the young are happier than the old. But in North America happiness has fallen so sharply for the young that they are now less happy than the old. By contrast, in the transition countries of Central and Eastern Europe, the young are much happier than the old. In Western Europe as a whole happiness is similar at all ages, while elsewhere it tends to decline over the life cycle (with an occasional upturn for the old).

I think social media is a red herring. For whatever reason, young people in America are unhappy and instead if dealing with hard problems we think "let's just take social media away, that will fix it". Does Finland not have social media? Why are young people in Finland happier than they are in America?

I predict this trend will continue, we will take social media away from kids and they will still be unhappy as they look for things to do in their small apartment while mom and dad look at their cell phones.

[0]: https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-and-age-summ...

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#232
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why 18 and not 25?

Excellent, have a whole group of voters who aren't allowed access to certain political information. Or are you going to raise the voting age to 25 as well? Perhaps we should also cut off people over 65, since they've proven to be more vulnerable to scams and financial exploitation over social media? (there's real arguments to be had about the negative effects of social media, but a serious discussion would include th…

It's not a TikTok ban.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#233

The recent World Happiness Report[0] concluded: > In many but not all regions, the young are happier than the old. But in North America happiness has fallen so sharply for the young that they are now less happy than the old. By contrast, in the transition countries of Central and Eastern Europe, the young are much happier than the old. In Western Europe as a whole happiness is similar at all ages, while elsewhere it…

I have a 14 year old and the content of social media seems to be what bums her out. She seems to be ingrained with the idea that she will never own a home, environmental disasters will be constant and the economy will be in shambles by the time she reaches adulthood.

Maybe America just has a uniquely depressive social media environment? I have not read any kind of large scale studies examining the "tone" of social media feeds in different countries but that would be interesting.

* Also whenever she says stuff like that I respond by letting her know she will be able to buy a house if she wants one, the economy will always be good for people who are work smart and hard, etc.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#234

"I don't want my kids using social media without my permission" is a problem that already has a solution: put parental controls on your kids devices. We don't need Daddy Government to make decisions that can and should be made by parents.

> put parental controls on your kids devices

We did that. My kids (twins) pooled their allowance money for a few months and had a friend at school buy them an old iPhone that they shared in a locker at school. They went wild on social media once they were set loose, to the detriment of everyone involved.

There was a government report in the last couple years that concluded (paraphrasing) “the ideal amount of social media for teens is greater than zero and less than ‘all day’—but it’s not clear where it becomes harmful.”

TL;DR-nature, uh, finds a way…

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#235
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve gotten by for the last several years without Facebook or Google (I do use a YT account, but not for anything meaningful). It’s annoying, but doable. I think the point is that the internet and particularly social media is now the de-facto town square. States are basically requiring identification to speak or criticize government in the town square. If you take a step back and look at it that way, it's grossly an…

This has become such a common trope that I think people fail to apply even a modicum of scrutiny: the internet is not the town square and whatever your idea of the town square is likely wrong if you think its as wild-west-y as the internet is. Firstly, try to approach children in the town square while wearing a mask for anonymity; or try to hold up images of porn in your town square. You will not be there long, you'd…

>This has become such a common trope that I think people fail to apply even a modicum of scrutiny: the internet is not the town square

Where is the majority of politics and recent events discussed? Where are new ideas shared and accepted or rejected? Where is this topic being discussed? Case rested.

>Secondly, why do people think there is some sort of town square?

It's an international phenomenon, probably as old as civilizations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_square

The rest of your post sounds like moral panic.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#236

People might see it as harsh but looking at reality and the hard numbers collected about the gigantic negative impact it has on kids and teenagers this is the right move, would even push it till 18.

Why 18 and not 25?

because the legal adult age in the US is 18?

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#237
post #16

Great. I think few people have any doubts about social media being a net negative for young people.

> I think few people have any doubts about social media being a net negative for young people.

They should have doubts. This position is not supported by the currently available evidence[0][1][2]. The APA’s position paper makes this explicit: “Using social media is not inherently beneficial or harmful to young people.”

So long as focus remains on scapegoating ‘social media’ as the main cause of suffering, we will never solve the problem. The negative aspects of social media apply to young and old equally, and as far as I can tell are largely manifestations of deeper societal issues that have festered for generations.

[0] https://www.apa.org/topics/social-media-internet/health-advi...

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8221420/

[2] https://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/news-events/no-evidence-screen-time...

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a whole category of people from being able to speak at all Hot take but I can go without the opinions of children.

Well, yeah. I can go without the opinions of any underrepresented group. (A lot of theoretical computer science work in my field was done by pseudonymous children, but it's not like I need that to live.) Doesn't mean they can go without me hearing what they have to say.

What theoretical computer science work is being done by middle schoolers? Are you a Minecraft YouTuber?

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would give them heroin in a controlled manner if the consumption of heroin was the primary means of social interaction for the majority of adults. The heroin analogy is eye catching, but ultimately nothing more than idiotic "think of the children"-esque hyperbole.

We agree that giving kids access to heroin as a way to teach self control is idiotic. What we don't agree on is that social media in its current incarnation is heroin like. I think it is. ..heroin was the primary means of social interaction for the majority of adults.. We aren't talking about adults we are talking about kids. That the majority of adults use social media for social interaction is a separate problem an…

You're forgetting that my argument is that by pushing the age of access to social media up to 18 (as the person I replied to proposed), we'd be pushing teaching social media 'literacy' to when parents lose the tools they have to teach their kids. If an 18 year old gets debilitatingly addicted to social media, the most they can do is threaten to kick them out, which I'm sure you can agree isn't really a solution, but if say, a 16 year old does that, the parents can take away their phone and forcibly disconnect them in various ways until they find a healthier balance.

While social media is addictive and unhealthy, it is the primary means of social interaction among adults, thus, just as we introduce high schoolers to adult things like driving, sex, job interviews, citing other's work etc through partial exposure to such things (eg junior driving permits, sex ed, mock interviews or relaxed punishments for academic dishonesty), we should be teaching kids how to have a healthy relationship with social media through limited exposure BEFORE they turn 18.

To this extent, I prefer one of the other suggestions in this post, that there should be two 'tiers' of social media, kids should still be allowed to access small platforms, and in particular, forums. Those are easier to monitor for parents and lack many of the ills of more 'modern' stream-of-consciousness style social media. As an additional point in favor of that approach, forums were pretty instrumental to my development of programming skills as an early teenager. Without the ability to participate on forums, my skills would've been considerably stunted.

Re: Florida's DeSantis signs law restricting social media for people under 16

#240

The recent World Happiness Report[0] concluded: > In many but not all regions, the young are happier than the old. But in North America happiness has fallen so sharply for the young that they are now less happy than the old. By contrast, in the transition countries of Central and Eastern Europe, the young are much happier than the old. In Western Europe as a whole happiness is similar at all ages, while elsewhere it…

Interesting young populations bordering all too real conflicts and war and existentially threatening neighbors are happier than people who have, by comparison, so much less to be unhappy about.

Also the old are very rich in America. They hold stocks and do well. I’m a millennial and can’t say I’ve had that experience. I would bet old Europeans own less securities and are less wealthy possibly. This decreases the older generations happiness possibly and may artificially raise youth happiness in comparison.

It’s all interesting and there’s a lot here to look at and ponder over. I do think there’s something unique about American youths and how they use these technologies though.

I would also bet there’s less commerce masked as social media platforms Europe. Many young Americans sort of blend the use of these apps with attempts to make money. That’s my perception at least. That may introduce stressors not seen in a society which doesn’t have such a focus on being industrious or busy constantly.

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