171–180 of 341 posts
https://asdf-vm.com/ ASDF is better because it works with many more languages, other than only Python, like Rust, Go, Node, etc, and other tools, such as AWS/Google/Firebase/Azure CLIs.
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pyenv only manages python versions, while poetry manages dependencies and virtual environments. They are complimentary, but do not overlap.
To add to this, with poetry, you basically do `poetry env use python3.12` to create a python virtualenv on python3.12 (you can use whatever python version pyenv supports, doesn't even have to be CPython). The generated virtual env name is a little wonky. I'm not sure exactly what the scheme is, but it's basically `$(package)-$(some sort of hash?)-$(pyversion)`. I can't speak for all tools, but at least VS Code detect…
I have to warn again users that think they have found the silver bullet that pyenv comes with a big caveat: it compiles python on your machine. The number of possible modes of failure in this situation is huge. See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use I'm not saying pyenv is not a useful tool, but it is not a tool for beginn…
Actually, it only builds it locally if it can't find a pre-packaged version for your system/arch. Admittedly that's most of the recent ones on a Mac, but there is a difference (I've been using pyenv for nearly ten years[1] now). The big advantage for me is that I can match whatever runtime and standard library a target has (and yes, that's needed more times than not, even in this new age of Docker). Additionally, you…
$ PYTHON_CONFIGURE_OPTS='--disable-ipv6 --enable-optimizations --with-lto' PYTHON_CFLAGS='-march=native -mtune=native' pyenv install 3.12.2 python-build: use openssl@3 from homebrew python-build: use readline from homebrew Downloading Python-3.12.2.tar.xz... -> https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.12.2/Python-3.12.2.tar.x... Installing Python-3.12.2... python-build: use readline from homebrew python-build: use ncurses from homebrew python-build: use zlib from xcode sdk
BUILD FAILED (OS X 14.4 using python-build 20180424)
Inspect or clean up the working tree at /var/folders/w9/xvxzj68j6kx7m480rnwq6hvh0000gn/T/python-build.20240325114837.43577 Results logged to /var/folders/w9/xvxzj68j6kx7m480rnwq6hvh0000gn/T/python-build.20240325114837.43577.log
Last 10 log lines: ./Include/internal/pycore_interp.h:193:24: error: field has incomplete type 'struct _dtoa_state' struct _dtoa_state dtoa; ^ ./Include/internal/pycore_interp.h:193:12: note: forward declaration of 'struct _dtoa_state' struct _dtoa_state dtoa; ^ 1 error generated. make[2]: ** [Objects/boolobject.o] Error 1 make[1]: ** [profile-gen-stamp] Error 2 make: ** [profile-run-stamp] Error 2
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There isn't one. Python distribution and packaging is just fundamentally horribly broken. I think his point was that you shouldn't pretend to users that just switching to pyenv is the solution.
> Python distribution and packaging is just fundamentally horribly broken It's clearly not because most people successfully use it fine. The problem of distribution and packaging is often a matter of user expectations vs. the actual problem. The user expectations is that Python is a high level language and will run the same across different machines regardless of OS and Hardware. The actual problem is Python is a glu…
All that being said, the creator of Rye is 100% cognizant of that XKCD comic, this [1] is a nice read.
I'm not super well versed in Python tooling at all. I've had to work a lot in Python in the past 6+ months, and I become super confused when I tried making a Python project in my spare time.
I settled on Rye because it just seemed to be the easiest to use.
[0]: https://rye-up.com/ [1]: https://github.com/astral-sh/rye/discussions/6
I have to warn again users that think they have found the silver bullet that pyenv comes with a big caveat: it compiles python on your machine. The number of possible modes of failure in this situation is huge. See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use I'm not saying pyenv is not a useful tool, but it is not a tool for beginn…
I call it the curse of Python. When the God Of Programming made Python, all other languages were jealous of its elegance, simplicity and intuitive beauty. When the other programming languages went to complain he said..."Wait until you see what package systems I will give them...They will never get an environment properly setup..." :-)
”The CUDA version on your system does not match the CUDA version the realm of mortal men was compiled with”
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So, what is "the tool for beginners fighting with python packaging problems"? That is, the pattern seems to be that someone mentions a solution, then a zillion responses as to why it sucks. Is there any tool or pair that sucks least for most cases and beginners? I get that every case is different, but perhaps there are some useful starting points?
You could just give up and resort to using Docker.
The common interface is they all use `docker-compose up` and have their editors hooked into the containers.
I have to warn again users that think they have found the silver bullet that pyenv comes with a big caveat: it compiles python on your machine. The number of possible modes of failure in this situation is huge. See also: "Why not tell people to "simply" use pyenv, poetry or anaconda" https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use I'm not saying pyenv is not a useful tool, but it is not a tool for beginn…
You will know when you care. These days, doing common tasks, the constraint solver in poetry will often tell you:
“Hey! I can’t find a version of sentencepiece with metadata that lets me combine this with python 3.12.2. Sorry! I give up!”
Now, if you aren’t concerned with using your bare metal for CUDA or fancy new MPS or AMD stuff. Just ignore this and use containers. I’d use podman compose.
However, I use pyenv on every machine. Because it compiles specific versions I actually need, even to create various virtual environments. If compiling python automatically sounds tough, you probably don’t need to anyway.
To describe the problem you’d see. I try to use poetry by default, though I think it became popular before it was PEP-compliant or useful in devops. It is impossible to control the behavior of other package managers, and poetry is/was strict about that. Which means you can’t force deploy in many cases. (Better lately.)
For the problem pyenv helps to solve, I back-up my pyproject.toml setuptools backend with pip and requirements.txt. These days, requirements-cuda.txt and requirements-mps.txt.
The landscape is still a disaster for binary compatibility, but it can be done lol. (I’ve been doing python packaging professionally since prom, which was python 2.6 give or take.)
I used pyenv in my previous company. At first it was fine, but after a while with multiple versions of Python installed, things stopped working. The right virtual env was not activated, etc. (It could have also been because our software updates like OS and security upgrades were pushed by desktop support). I removed all of it, and just resorted to installing multiple versions of Python the old way (downloading from p…